Cloudy water, established tank, 6 weeks cloudy

[Jason Monette]

Gerry,

I agree. I appreciate your "guesses". I know there are more dirted tanks here. Let's hope they chime in

 

[Tom Barr]

If the Mircle grow is the problem, why did it take 6 weeks after the tank was established to have green water? Others have used this setup with no Problem.

This is why I am so confused.

I appreciate all the suggestions!

Lets come up with a Plan of attack.

What should I try first? Here are my thoughts, let me know what you think.

1). Kill the Algea, uv sterilizer
2) major water change 90% once water is clear
3) get some fast growing floating plants
4) EI dosing
5) pump in tons of co2 and dose with excel
6) once good growth is established, remove uv
7) see what happens next

GW often occurs about 2-8 weeks in if you have a potent source of NH4, and soil is a good way to do it.
ADA AS also can do this, but because it's clay, this tends to release less NH4. If you move plants around or disturb the soil, then this can release a lot all at once.

UV will get rid of it. If you are going to buy a UV, buy a cheapy, then resell on ebay or something.
Or keep in storage for those once every 2-5 years times you might ever have it again setting up a new tank.

Yes, to the other items above.

 

[Jason Monette]

Thanks for chiming in Tom. I will get started and report back.

 

[jerrybforl]

It might by the Miracle Grow. This is why I never use stuff like that. I've only had this issue once, knock on wood, but that was many years ago. I used a liquid product that cleared it up. I wish I could remember the name.

You should ask you LFS to see what they have.

 

[jerrybforl]

Now that I have seen the whole thread I would say it is definitely the MG! I would do several things.

1. add UV
2. I would do >50% WC daily or every other day.
3. I would switch my substrate. I will never use stuff that can cause issues later down the road.
4. Get rid of the fish that is stirring up the substrate. If you do (2), you don't have to get rid of any fish.
5. I would try to find a product that is designed to clear up GW.
6. EI
7. Do tons of research. Know what you are doing! Ask lots of questions.
8. Above all be patient.

I read that you said to "pump tons of CO2". Please be careful with this. Start out slow and gradually increase. If you start out too heavy, you will gas your fish.

 

[Jason Monette]

Now that I have seen the whole thread I would say it is definitely the MG! I would do several things.

1. add UV

Looking on ebay today.

2. I would do >50% WC daily or every other day.

um that's a lot of water changes

3. I would switch my substrate. I will never use stuff that can cause issues later down the road.

There are lot's of people that have tons of success with dirted tanks. I wanted to try it. I want to see if I can get this to work before I give up on it completely

4. Get rid of the fish that is stirring up the substrate. If you do (2), you don't have to get rid of any fish.

The problem there is finding those suckers, they are sneaky to the max.

5. I would try to find a product that is designed to clear up GW.

With a UV, do I need this? Any recommendations? Most of these products will kill my nirate snails I believe. These snails a sweet by the way, haven't had to scrape my glass at all since I have got them!

6. EI

Check

7. Do tons of research. Know what you are doing! Ask lots of questions.

I have done so much research that my eyes are bleeding. The problem with research on the web is that there is so much info out there, some of it is good, some of it is bad, you have to find a spot where you can trust the info....Which is why I am here.

We are on page 3 of this thread, I think I have the asking questions thing down as well

8. Above all be patient.

Not one of my strong suits

I read that you said to "pump tons of CO2". Please be careful with this. Start out slow and gradually increase. If you start out too heavy, you will gas your fish.

Fish are fine, I lose a lot of the CO2 because of the overflow and sump. I have had it cranked for a couple of weeks, and the fish are doing well.

I really appreciate all the suggestions, Keep them coming.

 

[Whiskey]

I had allot of success with dirt bottom tanks, I even ran my 180 that way for over a year, but I remember that finding the proper dirt was a big part of the equation. I don't remember why at this point, but Mirical grow was on the definite "NO" list, I was trying to find soil without any kind of additional ferts added to it for fear of algae issues like you mention.

If I were you I would start by finding better soil, Diana Walsted's book has a great section on how to choose both the rock and soil, then redo the tank with that. I think this will help solve the biggest contributor to your problem.

HTH,
Whiskey

 

[jerrybforl]

When Tom was out scaping Gerry's tank, he had Gerry doing 3-4x a week! The fish will appreciate it very much. When I've had diatoms, I've done everyday >50% WCs. This will not harm your fish if you put the de-chlorinator.

I'm sorry, but I don't remember the name of the product. Whether it will kill the nerites, I cannot say.

 

[Jason Monette]

Ok UV in.

Will do a huge water change tonight 90%.

Floating plants will be ordered tonight as well.

I will keep you posted

 

[Jason Monette]

Ok, I did a 200 gallon (drain, fill, drain, fill) water change. Have the Green Eating Machine going (UV). Looked great right after the change, until I turned on the pump and then it got cloudy. But here are some updated pics

Right after the 200 gallon water change
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A day after the water change
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I think I will do another water change today as well. Will keep you posted

 

["Q"]

Hey Jason, I've had a set up with lots of similarities to yours and I think I can offer some help.

I started out with about 1/2 in of peat moss with 2 in of flourite on top. Everything ran fine for a month or so and then the grren water came. And then the organic scum on the top of the water came shortly after.

I tried to compensate with a lot of extra biological filtration but this has never had any effect. And I think I can sum up what's happening.

1. You have quite a large layer of organic stuff breaking down in your substrate both releasing ammonia and a large surplus of organics into your water.

2. While the bio-bale you have in your sump is a good biological filter we have to remember that in a case like this with a constant source of organics it is also a constant source of ammonia.

IMO the bigger the biological filter the more unstable your ammonia will be because the bacteria will continue to grow and at some point they will either die off cause a lack of ammonia to feed them or because of cleaning the filter.

Also, as others here have mentioned, your biological filter may not be able to respond fast enough when you have fish that disturb the gravel.

And I'm afraid I have some more bad news for you. I have since uprooted all my plants and gotten all of my peat moss out of my gravel and rinsed it out of the roots and replanted everything. Yet right after I did this I was still getting organic scum on top of the water. For the few weeks I've been running enough purigen for a 250 gallon tank and the scum is finally fading away after regenerating the purigen a couple times.

The only conclusion I can come to as to why the scum hung around for so long was that flourite likes to hang on to organics.

One thing that did help was when I mail ordered a lot of plants (too many to fit in the tank really). The next morning the green water was noticeably reduced.

The left side of your tank seems a little thin. Try doubling the plant mass over there if you can. And possibly get some more water movement over there too. The better the water flow the faster the plants can remove that ammonia.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[puopg]

Hope the UV does the trick for you! Also, that one pic on the first page, yea that's some seriously fresh pea soup

 

[Jason Monette]

Ok UV is still going 24/7. Water is pretty much crystal clear. But no new plant growth? I have some more plants on order to fill in the left side. I am dosing with MMM (30ml) every day. I have the CO2 being injected right into the return line and pumping lots of it. But no plan growth....any ideas?

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