In the case of starvation there is little to zero residual NO3 in the water at any given time. Dennis points out that some plants can deal with this better than others. He also points out in the comments that K and PO4 should be higher than NO3. To me this is an example of extreme reduction for the sole purpose of producing vivid colors. The basic point is you can skate by with it by having an ultra rich substrate to fall back on. Inert subs like ours can forget about it.
Joe that is what I was referring to. Rotala’s with extreme color don’t come that easily. It’s still a balancing act, but of a different kind.
Now this is an interesting thought. Goes to the theory of keeping things stable and no sudden movements. I have no scientific reason to believe this, but it seems plants get used to what you are providing and adapt.Ive never had much success running low NO3 in my sand tanks with high light and high co2. But Ive never started out that way, or tried it for very long or very thoroughly either. Usually what Ive done is take a system that is balanced to roll with 30 ppm per week and try backing it down 30-50%. What always happens is a few plants immediately freak and I quickly abandon the idea. Like sticking your toe in a freezing swimming pool and saying - Screw that!
This might explain how plants can react differently depending on where they are sourced. For instance, I received some Lobelia Cardinalis small form from Maryland Guppy. Our tanks are quite different in our approach. In his tank the L. Cardinal gets HUGE. I think he sent me four giant plants.
Within a week every single leave had come off. Almost like going from emersed. Three of them melted completely and vanished. One root seemed to have some life in it, so I just left a nub sitting there. Well it took a while, but now that plant is a healthy as can be, and normal (for me) size.
On the flip side, I sent him some Pantanal, and in 24 hours it melted into nothing. Just vanished in the wind.
Now when I get plants from you Joe, in general there is almost no transition, it’s usually like they don’t skip a beat. And our parameters are very similar.
So I think there is something to the sticking your toe in the cold water analogy. Once you get in it feels completely different a few minutes later. And more than likely we would see different results if we adjusted dosing VERY slowly.…..and had the patience to let things evolve. Might be worth messing around with.
Interesting. I’ll get a picture of mine for you. Some pink on the tops, but not heavy. My N is at least as high as yours. Might be a good one to focus on with gradual drop in N to see what happens.Speaking of colors, an interesting thing happened in mine recently by going from 30 ppm NO3 per week up to 35. Hyptis lorentziana was showing great color on top at 30 ppm/week. I went up to 35 and it immediately turned green, two days after the water change. (I front load macros) Crazy right? I thought so too
And one last thought. My first post on this site was about how to approach dosing in a heavily stocked tank.
https://barrreport.com/threads/first-time-poster-seeking-a-little-advice.13633/
Vin basically told me to try just dosing K and forget N & P. I immediately did and let's just say that didn’t work out too well. Now was it because I went straight from full EI to nothing? Well in retrospect, very well could be. Could also be I had no idea of what I was doing (not that I really do now!) and had not optimized other parts of the planted tank equation. But even today, every time I try lowering macros, many plants seem to rebel. But maybe it would be different if phased in very slowly?
Anyway, sorry to ramble, but these tanks you and Vin are experimenting with bring up lots of food for thought, and may point to some new paths. I'm all for change. Look at larding on custom micros and front end loading macros. Who would have thunk it?
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