Deficiency?

bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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Hi everyone,


This is my first post on this forum but I have been in the hobby for a few years and I frequent a few other forums. Unfortunately I have been having an issue with my tank that has been ongoing for the last 6 months. Here are the basics, I started my 26 gallon aquarium in June, my star repens soon carpeted the bottom of the tank and I had more AR mini than I know what to do with. I did a trim in September and since my star repens continually melt and the AR mini just will not grow. Since I have worked on the CO2, Lighting and ferts. I bought a canister filter, increased CO2 substantially and dimmed my lights. The problems continued. There are many pictures and more details in other forums that I don't care to retype. I am getting ready to tear down the tank and clean the substrate (eco-complete) today. I will attach the relevant links to the existing discussion, thank you in advance for your help.


http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f24/bcarls-26-gallon-bf-build-309788-53.html


http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=787305&page=4


-Bcarl
 

Pikez

Rotala Killer!
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May 12, 2013
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Hey bcarl - I did not read the whole thread over at plantedtank, but when my AR looked nasty like that and stauro repens melted, I looked over my notes (keep notes!) and found that I was killing them with kindness. As long as my traces were much higher than EI, these plants suffered and Rotala mac stunted. Specifically, with CSM+B combined with Fe DTPA. When I cut my high dosing in half, everything turned around. My stauro don't look anywhere near as nice as alanle's but at least they are not melting! I did this back and forth a few times to confirm.


I was over-doing it because I suspected deficiency. Many EI folks believe that you simply cannot overdose on CO2 and cannot overdose on micros thanks to 50% weekly water change. That was definitely NOT the case in my tank. I think you may be in the same boat. Try EI light or PPS-Pro.


Always keep a stem of Rotala mac as an indicator.
 
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bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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I might do a summary post to give a timeline of this mess. It has been quite disheartening to have gone from a ridiculous carpet and so much AR mini that I couldn't get rid of it fast enough to now not being able to grow it. I had some really bad dosing habits and I do keep pretty good notes. I frequent other forums and know one can seem to figure this out. Im hoping the advanced aquarist in this forum may be able to help.
 

bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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So heres a quick summary of the tank and what i have tried and experienced.


I started the tank around late may and had developed a beautiful carpet of star repens and AR mini. At the time I only have a small HOB filter and was diffusing CO2 through the filter intake. I also had some bad fertilizing habits as I was adding tons of potassium. I still used RO/DI and reconstituted through Equilibrium and the Alkaline/Acid buffers. KH was around 7-8 and GH ranged from 6-8. I also later found out that the drop checker solution had a KH of 7.


Randomly the star repens started to melt and other plants began to suffer. And so did other plants. The new growth of the s.repens would look fine but leaves that were 2-3 days old would simply melt and the AR mini simply stunts.


I wanted to correct my dosing so I went to a schedule that is basically E.I adjusted for my tank size. I thought was dosing to much iron so I stopped the Seachem Iron and the CSM+B. This yielded no improvement. The next thing I tried was adding roottabs (Osmocote + in pill capsules). This seemed to help the Pogo but nothing else in the tank. I wanted to address flow so I purchased a Hydor Korlia and Cannister filter with an inline diffuser to help CO2 reach all areas of the tank. This did not work either. I tried cutting my water with bottled spring water to not have as pure RO/DI. I started using CaSO4 and MgSO4 to make my own GH booster mix and backed off on the amount of potassium. I tried emptying the tank, washing out the substrate and starting with new water. I have also tried stop dosing glut.


Most recently I went out of town for about 2 weeks. I had the tank very close to running well, I did not want to change the lightning schedule and I had someone watching the tank daily. I basically dosed the EI equivalent of Nitrates, Potassium, phosphates and Micros the day I left and pre made the doses for them to do after 7 days. I also put some roottabs under the blyxa, A.bonsai and pogo. They maintained the drop checker color except one accident when the tank was briefly gassed. When I arrived home the stems were rotting in the middle of the Bonsai, mermaid weed and the blyxa had completely died. The nitrates were very high but the rest of the parameters looked fine.


I have shared my issues with the tank on many forums and no one can seem to figure out what is wrong. I am at an impasse of what to do next and what is happening to my tank. I am hopeful a knowledgeable member of this community may be able to shed some light on my problem.


Here is my current water params and dosing schedule:


ph: 6.8


KH: 4


GH: 6


nitrates: 20


phosphate: 2


40-50% weekly water changes


KNO3- 250ML with 45g mixed-dosing 5 ML 3 times a week


KH2PO4- 250ML 10g mixed- dosing 5ML 2 times a week


CSM+B- 100ML 8g mixed- dosing 2ML daily


Excel(Glut diluted at 50%)- 2ML daily




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bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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When the tank was at its best the BML was at 100% for 6 hours a day. Since I have turned it down to about 50% and have not seen any improvement. It was at 100% for at least 3 months with no issues.
 

ltb420

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If you are injecting CO2 measure the PH of completely out gassed sample of tank water. Then measure the tank when at its peak PH drop while CO2 is on. You should roughly get at least 1 point PH drop. You mentioned that you have increased CO2 but why are you still adding excel?
 

bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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Okay, I will try that. For the excel (glut), honestly I have always dosed it in my tanks. After adding CO2 I figured it couldn't hurt to keep dosing it.
 

bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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Okay the pH of the tank water with CO2 is 6.5. Tank water with out CO2 is 7.6 so I have about a 1 point change.
 
Mar 20, 2013
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Taking the pH of the tap will likely not be accurate because the CO2 can be lower or higher than equilibrium. E.g my tap comes out at pH=9+ with kH of only 2.5, meaning CO2 is <0.02ppm. However, pH at CO2 equilibrium is around 7.3-7.4. So to get accurate tap pH measurements, you have to degas by shaking the water vigorously and allow it to sit overnight. Then take the measurement.


Also, 50% dimmed is still a lot of light for BML fixture. I think the glut that was added was preventing any algae outbreak.
 

bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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To test the pH, I took the water out of the tank, put it in a glass used an airstone for about 1 min. Let it sit for about an hour then tested the pH.


I agree there I am in the high light category, but I grew this tank for 3 months with no issues with less CO2 and poor flow and had great results. See the first picture. I would agree with the too much light if tank conditions improved when the light was reduced but that did not happen. I know plenty of people who run this light at 100% with the same plants and do not have issues.
 

ltb420

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Some plants are actually sensitive to excel try cutting it out for a couple of weeks to see if the plants improve.

bcarl_26gal said:
Okay, I will try that. For the excel (glut), honestly I have always dosed it in my tanks. After adding CO2 I figured it couldn't hurt to keep dosing it.
 

bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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Looked at my purchase history on amazon, I ordered metricide 14 on June 22nd. Assume a week for shipping, and I remember not using for a week or to after. That puts me in mid july. If the melting started late august I could have slowly overdosed the tank and inhibited the plants growth? I also use some in my micro solution to prevent mold. I will make some new micros and stop using glut and see what happens.
 
Mar 20, 2013
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bcarl_26gal said:
I agree there I am in the high light category, but I grew this tank for 3 months with no issues with less CO2 and poor flow and had great results. See the first picture. I would agree with the too much light if tank conditions improved when the light was reduced but that did not happen. I know plenty of people who run this light at 100% with the same plants and do not have issues.

You can't compare others' experiences with your own and expect similar results. It's clear that there was a carbon issue. Too much light + not enough carbon = stunting. Also, you said you were adding glut. That's a carbon source and also an algaecide. None of the plants appear to be glut sensitive and it's not necessary to mix a new batch of micro solution.
 

bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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I do have 2 fish still, another story for a different thread... lol. I don't have any issue pumping more CO2. I currently run the system at about 2-3bps 24/7. How do you explain the tank running better with less CO2 though?
 

ltb420

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Make small adjustments to the CO2 and watch the fish for reference. If they become skittish and start hiding just back down a bit. Don't rule the glut out though, you mentioned Metricide 14 which is a concentrated glut and if you didn't dilute it properly you may have been overdosing.
 

bcarl_26gal

Junior Poster
Nov 11, 2014
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I really don't mind doing both. I have a UV sterilizer for algae control. I do not see much benefit from using glut anyways. I am also going to pick up a second drop checker to use as a reference solution as well. Many people have talked about my iron dosing and a possible iron toxicity/deficiency. Any thoughts if iron could be involved here too?