Yet another "what's my deficiency?" thread

Florin Ilia

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I increased CO2 and I did a 24h survey.



Apparently I increased it too much (I wanted to increase it way more slowly but oh well) and I need more aeration, the degassing is slow again.
 

Tom Barr

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Florin Ilia;76841 said:
I increased CO2 and I did a 24h survey.



Apparently I increased it too much (I wanted to increase it way more slowly but oh well) and I need more aeration, the degassing is slow again.

That is about what my 180 Gal did daily, with the canister filters.
I ran the lighting the 9 hours.........straight, but when I switched to the wet/dry, the levels drop to 2ppm in 30 Minutes when the CO2 was shut off.

Might target about 60-70 ppm at most.
 

Florin Ilia

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Two weeks later, the results of increasing CO2 and K: not impressive.

I can see some improvement (new growth on A reineckii Lilacina seems less contorted, and there are less holes) but it may just be wishful thinking.

The leaves on R macrandra are small and with colors ranging from pure green to orange. Some shoots of R macrandra are extremely stunted, with ridiculous leaves of a few mm long.

The leaves on D Diandra are still flimsy and growth is quite slow.

Question: could this be the result of having too little substrate? After several rescapes, the substrate is now uniform at about 4cm depth throughout the tank.

Some pics (click on them for higher res):


Ridiculously stunted R macrandra:




Healthy Tonina fluviatilis, pearling on several plants (pic is taken 2 days after water change):








Flimsy D Diandras:




Plant salad:




The stunted macrandra, different angle:




Notice the color variation between neighbor macrandras, also the snmall leaves/stunting:








This setup will be replaced soon, but I'd still like to understand why my plants stunt...
 

Biollante

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A Liittle Light Reading for the Holidays

Hi Florin

As with your unhappy snails and probably your disappearing iron I think this is likely different faces of the same problem, I have been giving it some serious thought (gosh that hurts!:eek:) and may have an idea or two.:gw

Santa left “The ecology of freshwater molluscs” by Robert T. Dillon under the tree and though I have yet seriously to study it a few points jumped out (hate when that happens,:mad: have to chase those “points” down:rolleyes:), I will write more this week.:)

Biollante
 

Wet

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In regards to the pictures above Bio's last post and your thread on color of R. macandra: Are you sure that's not Rotala macandra 'Green'? This totally looks like the 'Green' getting their reddish color: http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/120/img1714cr2.jpg

Example (J Ludwig's contribution to the Plant Finder): http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/plantfinder/details.php?id=164

JMO: Tonina fluviatilis that looks that nice means you're doing it mostly right. In addition to the adjustments you're making, I think you should give that thick patch of D. diandra and Rotala a big harsh trim. Let them outcompete as they grow back. I'll bet the winner looks nice and the other ones take a nice shape but less optimal growth beside the winner :) This can look nicer than simply giving the stems some space, imo.
 
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Tom Barr

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Florin Ilia;76982 said:
Aeration slightly increased.


This is a more reasonable graph.

With good O2, I think this would be a good CO2 range, with a wet dry and perhaps more flow, and depending on where the CO2 sample was taken..........the slopes would increase faster and drop very fast at night.

In other words that CO2 would be 2-3ppm after 45-60min at night.
 

Tom Barr

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Yes, piss poor R mac growth, I'm not sure this is "Green" type though, that I bet...would grow fine in this tank.

I've had that type of growth in the past, but felt it was due to my tap water's KH.
I have zero issues growing now.

The stand I started about a month ago are filled in and is thick and nice and colorful, I also have plenty of Tonina.
ADA AS and modified dosing, fairly rich........but it should grow in rich or lean conditions, we have done both with it.

I think rich sediment would help and only top this plant, allow the new growth from the old stumps and then replant the tops.
 

Florin Ilia

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Bio, thanks for asking Santa for that book! Occam's razor says you could right - there should be a common root for all 3 problems. 2 roots at most :p

Wet, I can't be 100% sure that it's not the green kind (I bought it from an online shop), and yes my plants look strikingly like the ones you posted! I initially assumed it's the red variety because, when I received it, it was very pink:


Right before planting (4 months ago):




Right after planting:




3 days after planting:




9 days after planting:



In any case, it's not the color that's bothering me (I have another thread for that :)) but the small and distorted leaves. You may be right with the space suggestion - the tank is very small and I've probably crammed too many plants together!

Tom, I haven't forgotten your advice about KH, the RO unit is on its way and I will use it for the new setups. I realize it will probably become a PITA down the road but I have to get R macrandra off my chest :). I tried filtering over peat to lower KH but I couldn't make it work, so I will definitely try this plant with reconstituted RO.

My O2 is around 7.8 ppm. I think my aeration can't get much better without a wet/dry. The CO2 concentration is about the same throughout the tank (which is very small, has good flow and now there's no hardscape).
 

Tom Barr

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Yes, I've seen this stuff before.

I have the plants before you killed them:)

But the growth should have been better nonetheless. Some of the tips initially grew poorly when I got mine, but now it's all nice and consistent.
This was likely transfer shock etc.

KH is something you might rule out and then use the RO for drinking water thereafter.
If you can do larger than 50-60%, say 80-% etc, 1-2x a week then you can also use the pH KH chart if you add baking soda vs the tap blending.
You should be fairly good with the pH/KH table then for CO2 measure.

DTPA Fe will help if the issue is Fe.
 

Florin Ilia

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For a couple of weeks I have:
- added activated carbon to my filter
- dosed H2O2, 4ml morning and 4ml evening
- slightly neglected the dosing of macro

The first 2 actions are Biollante's advice, the third is laziness :)

Result: the stunted tips started to develop.

Of course, I cannot be sure which of the above is relevant, and this could be a coincidence (delayed effect from increased CO2 or whatever) but I am documenting it nevertheless.

The pics are crappy but if you look carefully you can see, on the same plant, the old very small and very green leaves and the new growth, larger and more colorful.





 

Florin Ilia

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A few days later, following the same regime.

I cut D Diandra and R Macrandra as per Wet's suggestion. Normally with Macrandra I replant the tops but this time I didn't bother, I just pruned it, except for one top that I replanted (the nice red one in front).



And here's my first attempt at time lapse photography, 4 days compressed down to 30 seconds. I have still a lot to learn here too :)

[video=youtube;-iW3WDlk0HE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iW3WDlk0HE[/video]

Edit: for the record, the picture above has not been altered but the stills that make up the time lapse have been through Picasa's "I'm feeling lucky" transformation which as far as I can see improved contrast and slightly decreased color temperature.
 
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NewFishTank

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Hi Florin,
slightly out of the topic, which lapse camera did you use? Like the quality of it!

Cheers

Alan