This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Yeast Question

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by csmith, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    When I began using DIY Co2 I purchased 2 3-packs of yeast. One package was Fleishmanns "Rapid Rise, Highly Active" yeast, the other is Fleishmanns "Active Dry, All Natural" yeast. No reason I chose different kinds, they just happened to be sitting next to each other. Well, the first one I opened was the rapid rise. With a brand new bottle of sugar, water and yeast I'd have bubbles coming out of my tube within 1-2 hours, sometimes no longer than 15 minutes with a good bubble every second or two. Today I had to open a new package, and for no particular reason I just so happened to open the active dry. I made my bottle at around 11 a.m. and the Co2 is only halfway down the tubing..at 6 p.m. Is there really that much difference between the two? Is highly active that much more active? If it is, will this kind I'm on now give me longer production at the expense of bubble count? Perhaps the two could be mixed for longevity and production? The only notable visual difference between the two is the rapid rise granules are maybe twice as small as the active dry, if that makes any difference. I am hearing the fizzing in the bottle, so I know the yeast isn't dead.

    Also, will the complete lack of Co2 today (water change day) cause problems for the plants or will the one day break not make too much difference?

    Thanks for any and all help.
     
  2. Gbark

    Gbark Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    I would maybe make up two bottles, one with the rapid to start and so you get a supply of co2 straight away, and then use the regular longer lasting once it is upto speed.

    I don't think one day without co2 will make a huge difference, maybe don't leave the lights on as long.

    I once ran out of compressed co2 on a sunday, and had to wait for the shops to open on monday, and i didn't get any problems. :)
     
  3. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Yes

    Hi C. Smith,

    Yes, there is a big difference between “Rapid Rise, highly active” and others. You should get a somewhat longer run with the non-rapid rise yeast. :)

    I would recommend two bottles as Gbark recommended. ;)

    Missing a day especially on water change day should not cause much of a problem. A trick to keep CO2 up is to change large amounts of water. For most purposes a 70% water change every other day should keep a constant elevated CO2 level suitable for most plants and they will (all else being equal) pearl like crazy. :)

    Another trick with do-it-yourself CO2 is to use a reduced amount of Excel, half or a third the label dosing, helps even things out and reduces stress on the system. In addition, if you have primitive plants the third of label dosing seems not to harm them. :gw

    Good luck,
    Biollante
     
  4. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    Thanks to the both of you. My usual routine is to set up the bottle (2 cups sugar to 1/2 TSP of yeast) for a week, then on the next water change day I just dump another 1/2 TSP of yeast into the same bottle. I've added 1/2 TSP of the "highly active" to this same new bottle to test output for a week. If it drops too horribly low, I'll be setting up the two bottles next weekend.

    For the record, this new bottle finally started producing bubbles not long after I put in the highly active stuff, but it's not near the "new bottle" production I've been getting. The only other thing that I've changed was dropping my black neoprene tubing for some PVC tubing (it's clear and I'm nosey when it comes to what's going on) yesterday before I made the bottle. My initial fear was a leak, but as much as I had to force the tubing around the check valve I don't think it's a possibility. And again, with bubbles going into the tank I think that'd tell me no leak indeed.

    Thanks again for the help you guys.
     
  5. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    Losing My Patience With Yeast

    Does the tubing you use affect the process by which Co2 is produced or transported at all? I moved from Neoprene to PVC tubing last Saturday. I now have 0 production from this DIY reactor, and it's only been 5 days. There is now water in the line, about halfway up..exacty where the bubbles stopped when I first posted about this above. As stated previously, I had an issue getting this thing to begin producing bubbles far enough down the line. It's almost like the tubing is causing drag on the gas moving through the tube. I shake the bottle, I hear the fizzing..but it's not enough production to push the gas down the line.

    The only variable that has changed from my reactor lasting 2 weeks to lasting 5 days was the tubing swap. Same bottles, same recipe, same everything. I'm out of answers. The last thing I can think of to try is re-doing the top/tubing, as there may be an ever so slight leak. I don't think there is, but I guess it's the last option I can come up with.
     
    #5 csmith, Mar 19, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  6. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Tygon Tubing

    Hi,

    What water are you using for the yeast solution? :)

    I do not know of a neoprene problem, but silicon tubing (the mushy stuff) is the normal CO2 tubing. I like Tygon Laboratory Tubing, http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23367&catid=864.

    I have also used for years with great success the black drip irrigation tubing, still have some five years later on my 55-gallon do-it-yourself CO2. :cool:

    Biollante
     
  7. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    Regular tap water. I almost went with Tygon, but I found 100 ft of PVC tubing in 1/8 internal by 1/4 external for $12.
     
  8. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Bingo! As "They" Do Say

    Hi,

    Bingo!

    Make sure you de-chlorinate the water, watch out for increased chlorine/chloramines in the spring, increasing through the summer. ;)

    If you would like, pm me your address or at least your neighborhood, or major cross streets, in accordance with my policy of high friends in low places and low friends in high places, I have a couple o pals in your water department, that can give me the “inside” dope if you would like. :eek:

    Biollante
     
  9. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    No Joy

    Alright, so I've done a few things. I've added a BC. I've added a second bottle. I've gone so far above and beyond on the yeast it'll be amazing if these bottles last 5 days. In the following picture the bottle in the rear has atleast 1 TSP of yeast (half highly active, half "normal"), if not a hair more with 2 cups of sugar. The bottle in the front has 1/2 TSP of yeast, mixed in the same 50/50 ratio with 2 cups of sugar. The rear bottle is putting a bubble every second or two into the BC, the bottle in the front is making maybe 1 bubble every 5-6 seconds.
    This system has been running for a full 24 hours now and yet the water in the tubing in the aquarium doesn't budge from its equalized state against the water on the outside of the tubing. This entire system was rebuilt yesterday, so I know for a fact there are no leaks. The water was dechlorinated. The last thing I can think of is to just run these things full tilt (1+ TSP in each bottle) for a few days at a time. The length of tubing from the BC to the top of the tank is 3 feet.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    9
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Junk Food

    I've been working with yeast for over a year and understand what you are going through. I do not use the yeast you mention so I thought I should step back. Even with all the information out there a lot of what you learn will be through trial and error. The stuff is a living well, yeast. So just like your good friend Biollante, it can be contrary.

    You have a very impressive set up. I doubt it has any air leaks, but then again that could very well be the problem. I recommend everyone try to use yeast reactors and steam engines. Exactly because they teach economy.

    While Yeast reactors offer there own unique set of problems many are similar to pressurized CO2. Keep at it and keep an eye on this mind numbing thread - http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...age-Regulators

    With just the basic recipe I gain a sustained (too many bubbles to count) bubble count of lets call it 3bps over a two week period.

    My recipe:
    3.5L water
    4 cups (1L) sugar
    1mL pH stabilizer (pH ~5.2)
    1/4-1/2 tsp of re-hydrated dry yeast to start

    I use 1/4 Champagne yeast because of it's low foam production and very low sulphur production and high alcohol tolerance. Also great for carbonating sodas and it will ferment from 45-95 deg. F. What ever floats your boat.

    Optional ingredients

    Re-hydrate, 1 gram (1/8tsp) Fermaid K. per gallon.
    I add this about one week after the initial yeast inoculation.

    Fermaid K, is a blended yeast nutrient containing, Magnesium Sulfate, Inactive Yeast, Thiamine, Folic Acid, Niacin, Biotin, Calcium, vitamin B5 (Pantothenate) and DAP (Diammonium phosphate). Pantothenate, helps to keep open the important metabolic pathways that dramatically reduce the production of H2S. Magnesium, improves yeast alcohol tolerance.
    You can DIY your ingredients if you like. I get mine from http://www.thegrape.net

    I'm not sure about your routine but that may also be what is hurting. I start a fresh fermentation in a clean bottle two to three days in advance (capped with an airlock to keep out O2) and then swap out the old bottle. I would also suggest you try using your fish tank water.

    Good luck
     
  11. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    Can you elaborate on that? Your answer might also be the answer to my question of "Where is this gas going if it's not into the aquarium".

    I use clean bottles and all, but not nearly that much lead time. I'm more at the 2-3 hour timeline before hooking it up. When I first began with the DIY Co2 I'd have bubbles into the tank in an easy 30-45 minutes. At the time, though, I had a much simpler/shorter setup. Next weekend I'll give it a full day or two before I need the bottle.
    Thanks for your help, Tug.
     
  12. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,210
    Likes Received:
    1
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Tug's System Works As Well

    Hi,

    I really recommend less sugar, less than a cup, half to three-quarter cup and a dollop of Grandmas Molasses. :)

    A quarter to half-teaspoon yeast should be enough. I change one bottle each week, so none of my bottles goes more than two weeks.

    Three feet of tubing should not be a problem.

    As long as the water has no chlorine or chloramines that should not be a problem though yeast is hard to kill, your yeastie beasties look plenty flatulent.

    I would check each connection (out of the water) with soapy water for leaks.

    Finally, it looks like quite a bit of pressure build up so the obvious questions about blockages and is the check valve turned the proper direction and/or functioning properly? Is the reactor/diffuser blocked?

    [​IMG]
    Biollante

    P3210002..JPG
     
    #12 Biollante, Mar 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2010
  13. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    9
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Yeast can and will get into check valves. I like glass check valves for this reason, plus they look cool. As well as all the "obvious questions".


    I've found a 4:1 ratio of water to sugar works best for me. So, no more then 1 cup/L, but a lot of advise will say this is too much. Unless you have an airlock it might be better to hook up your bottle right away. Alternate your bottles to make up for any lag time. One new bottle every week. When I said I was not sure about your routine I only meant I was confused. You might already alternate them just as you already use clean bottles. :eek:

    Here is another thread you might find interesting.

    I hope this helps
     
  14. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Hmmm....

    Start at the beginning then. Yeast in the reactor and you get CO2 out ( foaming ). Check.
    Foam goes where? Stays in bottle? Check.
    CO2 must leave the bottle somehow, hopefully through the tubing. While it foams, place the end of the tubing into a dish of water. Got bubbles? Ok, so you now have at least low pressure CO2. Block off the line for a few minutes ( DO NOT DO THIS FOR EXTENDED PERIODS OR YOU HAVE A BOMB ON YOUR HANDS ). When you unblock to line do you have a blast of high pressure CO2? If not, then where your tubing meets your cap is likely your leak. Or maybe you took out the little plastic gasket in the cap. Either way, this is the most likely place to find your leak. It's also possible you have a bad batch of yeast and nothing you do will work well until you replace it. However, it worked before and you only changed the tubing and presumably are using the same yeast and procedure so it's most likely where the tubing meets the caps. Are the caps the same ones that were in use before on the same bottles? You didn't swap out bottles somehow did you?

    If all checks out and you have high pressure CO2, and you'll know it if you do when you uncork the line, then move on to your bubble counter. The design is the generally the same, so you most likely are losing your pressure in the cap threads, or the tubing entry/exit points. Next is your check valve. Finally, just throw the end of the line in the tank all the way at the bottom, still got bubbles? How about with an airstone? If you then block it and then release it, do you have a high pressure burst of bubbles? Is the diffusor clogged somehow?

    -
    S
     
  15. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    I found it, or should I say "them". I had multiple leaks, but they were so minute I never noticed them when I had my usually high production. I put teflon tape on the threads inside the bottle that's my BC, and I had production for a day. Then I added some on the outside of the bottle's cap and that gave me another day. The next day I watched a drop of water go up the line and stop at the check valve (clear plastic), so I added tape to where the tubing attaches to the check valve on each side and got a little more production into the tank. The entire time production into the BC never dropped, only the Co2 going into the tank. Today either my heavy load of yeast is catching up to me, or I have yet another leak because there was no production in the tank when I got home. It's definately not my diffuser, as I don't have one. My tubing comes under my powerhead and the bubbles get chopped up through that. Even though I'm sure it's airtight (considering how hard it was to pull the tubing through), the last place I know to seal is where the tubing goes into the BC so I'll be picking up some sealant this weekend from my LFS.
    This weekend I'll be using the lighter recipes offered and go from there. Thanks all for the help.

    Edit: Maybe I won't be using silicone sealant. Three of those links Tug posted say it's worthless. I can't think of where else the issue could come from. As previously stated, I'll make up a new mixture this weekend and run with it. Perhaps my recipe is so unbalanced it's just making my creation run amok. At this point, I hope that's the case.
     
    #15 csmith, Mar 25, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  16. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    4
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Good luck. The silicone sealant doesn't stick well to plastic which is why it's pretty much useless for this particular application. Do you have any glass or plastic airline tubing? If so, you might be able to use a solvent glue on the plastic tubing and cap to melt them together. Alternately, a glass tube heated up and shoved into the hole in the cap would melt the plastic a little and also form a good seal. I used the blue spongy silicone and cut a 45 angle at the end and then drilled a barely big enough hole in the cap and then used pliers to pull the tubing through the hole. Very tight fit and seal with no issues, but I may have just gotten lucky on that.

    -
    S
     
  17. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    9
    Local Time:
    10:01 PM
    Plastic Epoxy

    I had wondered if anyone took the time to read those links. :D
     
  18. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    I've done the same with both my previous and current setup. This is why I'm skeptical of my solution being in sealing the connection between the tubing and the bottles. It took me 5 minutes to pull 3 sections of tubing through the top of the bottle. It's incredibly tight, but not so much that it restricts flow. I blew into each tube to ensure I had unrestricted flow.
    My only real reasoning behind sealing them is they're the last possible spots I'm losing gas. I've put teflon tape on both the top and bottom of the check valve and on the threads of the bubble counter bottle, as well as a follow-up wrapping of the bubble counters' lid, wrapping the tape from the lid to the bottle itself. I understand teflon tape is for threaded objects and the check valve isn't threaded, but as thick as the layering is that I've put on it there can't be anything escaping. I've even got Double Bubble (yes, the gum) on the tops of each bottle where I was planning on placing the silicone. It was a temporary "test" fix to see if it made a difference, which it didn't seem to do, but hey who knows. Like I said, I'm really hoping my recipe was just that off-the-wall that it's the final cause of my woes.
     
  19. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    Does Nobody Have Faith Around Here?

    "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
    -Lao Tzu (among the many claimed sources)

    If you're taking the time to teach me to fish, I should take the time to learn. ..unless you just want to give me the fish and come build this thing for me. ;)
     
  20. csmith

    csmith Guest

    Local Time:
    4:01 PM
    I Have Entered Bizzaro World, Population 1.

    Alright, so here's the checklist starting at the beginning.

    1. Co2 Reactor 1 sealed with plastic epoxy on top where the tubing comes out and teflon tape on the bottle's threads. Check.

    2. Co2 Reactor 2 sealed with plastic epoxy on top where the tubing comes out and teflon tape on the bottle's threads. Check.

    (These were both irrelevant fixes, as prior to this there were bubbles in the bubble counter.)

    3. Bubble Counter sealed with plastic epoxy on top where the tubing heads up towards the tank and teflon tape on the bottle's threads and on the outside from the neck of the bottle to the top of the lid. Check.

    4. Check Valve sealed on both ends with teflon tape to the point it looks like a boxer's hand before they put gloves on. Check.

    5. Co2 exiting the tubing beneath the power head, entering the aquarium and causing awesome growth. Che-.. wait, no. :confused:

    There is no place I can think of left for this gas to escape. I watch the tubing in the aquarium and the gas pushes forward maybe 1/8"..then falls back. This dance back and forth is all that's happening. There is no connection left that hasn't been sealed. Where could this gas be going. Is it at all possible it's somehow entering the water in small amounts in the tubing?

    Maybe I'll like bizzaro world.
     
    #20 csmith, Mar 27, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2010
Loading...

Share This Page