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Would like to setup a mazzei venturi, HELP!

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by nmullens, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    I have just moved and am redoing my tank while I set it back up.

    Current setup:
    120 gal(4*2*2) with 2 xp3's one has a UV sterilizer in line the other has a co2 reactor in line. Because the rector isn't dissolving enough co2 I also have a diffuser disc under a power head. Using this setup I go through a 10lb co2 tank every couple months as I am running about 10+ bubbles per sec to keep co2 levels where I need.

    New Setup:
    I have the same tank and have bought a Fluval fx5 to replace the xp3's and I would also like to add a mazzei venturi to save on co2. I have some questions though. I am not sure what mazzei to buy? I was thinking the 384 with a pump that runs at about 700 - 1000 gph. To plumb that mazzie I was going to do the closed loop with ball valve, but also wanted to only have one intake and output in the tank. I have herd of plumbing the pump inline with the fluval fx5 output line and putting the mazzi after the pump. But I am not sure if this could mess up the fluval some how. Also because my fluval has that ribbed hose so it can bend I am not sure if I could get a tight connection from the hose to the pump or other plumbing. Also I am not sure if I am going to need a ph monitor to control the mazzie to prevent me from adding too much co2. On a lost note I live in Vancouver Canada and I can't find anywhere that sells the mazzie and ships to Canada any ideas?


    I would like to do this properly so I am looking for a little guidance, if anyone has any comment or suggestions like maybe a better way to do it, please let me know.


    Thanks in advance Nic.
     
  2. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    bump, anyone with some experience?
     
  3. JDowns

    JDowns Lifetime Charter Member
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    I have no experience with the Fluval. But for your mazzie. Contact Ryan Herco Export Sales.

    You may also find someone on this board who tried a 384 and moved on to a 4/5 series instead who would be willing to sell and ship to you.

    You may want to consider a needle wheel pump instead with your setup. Your already adding the extra pump, and needle wheel pumps do a nice job. Just another option.

    Good luck with your setup.
     
  4. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    Don't want to sound dumb but does someone make a needle wheel pump? Or is it a modification that I would do to the impeller on the pump my self like I have seen with other needle wheel setups? Also how does this methods efficiency of co2 compare to the mazzie?

    Also what are 4/5 series? Are those just larger Mazzie venturis or is this something that I should look into also?

    Thanks.
     
  5. JDowns

    JDowns Lifetime Charter Member
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    Look for GerryD's thread on Mazzei setup. I believe he has tried the 384 and the 4/5 series. The 4/5 are the 484 and 584 models. Breakdown of different mazzei units.

    Mag Drive makes a needle wheel pump.

    Tom has a thread here on modifying impellers yourself to achieve the same thing.

    I personally just use a DIY modified impeller. I found that it works just as well as the premade models. So if you have a pump already then why order another. But if you don't then buying a prepackaged unit would probably be worth it.

    The pro's I would see in your scenario for a needle wheel over a mazzei:

    • Will boost flow somewhat from Canister
    • No maintenance on a mazzei. Never used one myself so others may want to chime in on this.
    • Will not rely on a given pressure for consistency. Which I would see in your setup being problematic. Pump after Canister. As the Canister becomes restricted you will loose effeciency of the mazzei.

    One thing to also look at as far as NW type setups. Your CO2 will get chopped into a nice mist. And the longer the run of tubing the more dissovled it will become before reaching the tank. Which is something Tom has mentioned a few times.
     
  6. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    Please note that a Mazzei needs a decent amount of PRESSURE to generate the mist/dissolution we want. So, high flow pumps will not work as well as high pressure pumps that may flow less gph. Look at Iwaki as opposed to mag drives.

    I think either the 384 or 584 will work just as well. I have used both on my 180 and see no difference in performance if I just swap them out.

    Not sure how you will plumb this. Your venturi pump will need a source of water to push into the venturi. If the outlet of the canister is this source, then it will decrease as the filter clogs and the venturi performance will suffer as Jdowns advised.

    You will always need to keep up on filter maintenance (not a bad thing) and keep an eye on the c02 levels.

    I would most likely ditch the fx5 and do the following:

    Read a lot of mazzei and plumbing threads I and others have generated LOL Not sure which one Jdowns was referring to specifically but will be in the c02 forum.

    1. Get a decent Iwaki 40 or 70 or similar.
    2. Investigate the Nu-Clear or Ocean Clear canisters. I use both a mech and a bio model and run three parallel legs.
    3. Plumb the canister choice from step #2 and the mazzei on two parallel legs. This will force more water to the mazzei when the filter clogs and you will get better performance from your c02, so watch for that as well.
    4. Then combine the two parallel lines back to one and back to the tank.

    You are now powering both components with one pump.

    OR

    1. Keep the fx5 and get a needle wheel powerhead and use that to generate your c02 mist and diffusion.

    Option 2 is the easiest IMO. I like the first option as that is what I do lol
    Plus I like to experiment a little :) but the needle wheel will be in the tank whereas the venturi is outside of it.

    IMO you do not need a ph controller at all. It certainly does not 'control' the mazzei in any way. That is done by controlling the PRESSURE that gets to the mazzei.

    Just use a timer to have c02 solenoid come on say 60-90 minutes prior to lights on and turn c02 off about 30-45 minutes prior to lights off.

    Hope all this helps.
     
  7. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    JDowns: Thanks for the link to the thread on modifying impellers. I am thinking that I might try the Rio 1000 with the triple cut impeller, sounds cheep easy and effective. Would I be able to run that externally though?
     
  8. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    The pump is submersible and cannot be used externally.
     
  9. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    Thanks Gerryd, that is what I was afraid of. Well I guess I could use a mag with a fractionating impeller. I was thinking of the Mag 9.5 in a closed loop, would that be good for a 120gal? Or could I run it inline with the output of my Fluval fx5? Also I have been searching around and can't seem to find any stores that carry those pumps and ship to Canada, any know of places that ship internationally?
     
  10. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    Well I have found a place that will ship the Danner Model 9.5 Supreme 950 GPH Pump w/ Fractionating Impeller to Canada so that is good. But I am still waiting on ordering as I would like to figure out if I can run it without adding a new intake and output to my current setup. I have read that this pump would work for my tank size in a closed loop situation, but I would still like to add it into the output for my Fluval.
    Does anyone know if there is a good way to do this? Should I add a bypass loop for the pump like you would on a mazzie? Would that work? Or is this pump to large to run in line like that?

    Hear is a pic of what I was hoping to do, please forgive the picture I am no artist, will this configuration work?
    [​IMG]
     
  11. JDowns

    JDowns Lifetime Charter Member
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    You could do a bypass two ways.

    Wye off of the intake with one leg to the Fluval the other to Mag, or wye off of the Fluval output much like a Mazzei setup. Both would be easy and a preferred method IMO.

    Just running the pump as a booster with no bypass is a bad idea IMO. Not knowing what pressures the Fluval can handle. A pump after the Fluval and if suction is lost cavitation could occur. Before the Fluval and you could rupture seals. Always better to be safe and allow a bypass.

    If you run a wye prior to the Fluval I personally would use a true wye to ensure maximum pull from the tank.
     
  12. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    Thanks JDowns:
    That makes scene, I wouldn't want the Mag to dead lock if the Fulval shut off. I made a diagram of what I thought your first option would look like, having the Wye on the intake. Did I Wye it back into the Fluval line properly, this way I thought it could run independent from the Fluval if it was shut off. Please let me know if you see any potential problems in my proposed setup.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks Nic.
     
  13. JDowns

    JDowns Lifetime Charter Member
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    That looks fine and would be the way that I would run it in that scenario. If either unit shuts down or fails then it won't affect the other. You could use a T at the input branch for the Mag here if needed. The path of least resistance would dictate flow will come from the tank and not backwards from the Fluval, even if Fluval were off. I prefer to use true wyes, they don't cost much more, and are more effecient.
     
  14. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    Thanks again JDowns. Is a true wye like the image below?

    Wye?
    [​IMG]

    T?
    [​IMG]
     
  15. JDowns

    JDowns Lifetime Charter Member
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    Yes that first image is a tru wye, second is a tee.
     
  16. nmullens

    nmullens Prolific Poster

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    Thanks, that is what thought I just wanted to make sure. Well I am going to order everything tonight.

    Thanks again for all the help.
     
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