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Woodstock, ON Water Report

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by David, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. David

    David Prolific Poster

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    Hi,

    I've attached a water analysis for the treated water well that supplies my area. Column 10 is a mixture of the untreated water wells that I get out of my tap.

    I've taken note of the TDS around ~400ppm as well as calcium and magnesium at ~97 and ~30 respectively.

    Would anyone care to shed some light on anything they find to be sticking out? I'm trying to get an idea of the GH and KH of the water but not sure what do include in the calculations.

    I ordered some of Tom Barr's GH booster from aquariumfertilizer.com and I'd ideally like to get a rough idea of what I should expect to dose without having to buy test kits.

    Cheers.

    View attachment 3347
     
  2. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Definitely Not Soft Water

    Hi David,


    The Calcium and Magnesium means of all the things you do not need GH booster tops the list. :highly_amused:

    Your general hardness GH is 366-ppm CaCO[SUB]3[/SUB], 20.5-dGH.




    Alkalinity is 273-ppm CaCO[SUB]3[/SUB], 15.3-dKH.


    Copper and dissolved organic carbon is high; I recommend activated charcoal filtration, for any water for the aquarium, actually for the whole house. Given the DOC level I also suspect the chlorine or chloramine levels are on the high end as well, odd these are not included, another good reason for whole house carbon filter.:)


    Not bad, most plants and critters should do well, obviously keep your life simple and stay away from soft water plants and critters.:calm:


    A couple of small discrepancies, I’ll have to do a little more arithmetic, but I doubt it is more than reporting/rounding, though occasionally the discrepancies are where the nasty’s are hidden.


    Biollante
     
  3. David

    David Prolific Poster

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    LOL yet again I make a purchase without doing enough research first. On the plus side it was only like $7 and can think of at least a couple of friends who will be more than happy to take it off of my hands :cool:

    Thanks for the wisdom Biollante, I am going to put in a request to the public works department for my area and ask about chlorine/chloramine. I was always under the impression that our water was treated only with chlorine, but it seems to be increasingly uncommon from what I've read from others on here and TPT.

    We use a carbon filter for our drinking water. You pointed out the copper levels -- I had been reading that this can be very toxic to a lot of fish so I'm glad to get some reassurance on that. The only avenue I really know of to add activated carbon to my aquarium would be to use some sheets on top of the fine filter floss in my canisters. Unless there's a superior way of using activated carbon that I can find, I'll be doing that.

    I'll post the results of my inquiry regarding chlorine and chloramine.

    Cheers.
     
  4. David

    David Prolific Poster

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    The Thornton Water Treatment Facility (WTF) has ultra violet (UV) and gas chlorination for disinfection. The Sutherland Park WTF treats Well 7 and uses filtration for iron removal and gas chlorination for disinfection. At the Southside Park WTF Wells 6 and 9 are disinfected by chlorine gas. In 2011, approximately 6,664 kg of chlorine gas was used in the water treatment process. Approximately 1.2 m^3 of sodium hypochlorite was added in the distribution system to maintain chlorine residual. The chemicals are certified to meet standards set by the Standards Council of Canada or American National Standards Institution.

    I found this in the annual report for our area. I'm still going to ask the public works for more detail, but wouldn't they call it gas chloramination if chloramines were being used?
     
  5. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    It Is Chlorine

    Hi David,

    Your treatment plants are using chlorine gas so they are disinfecting by use of free chlorine, which contrary to common aquarium wisdom is harsher and more effective than chloramines.:)

    The problem with free chlorine is that it dissipates quickly, so they would have to use very high amounts to keep the water safe through the distribution system, instead they have to add sodium hypochlorite, common household bleach as the water enters the distribution system.:)

    Google experts:p to the contrary, chloramines are actually much safer for people and their aquariums.:)

    Activated charcoal/carbon filters, whole house or inline are the cheapest, easiest and most effective chlorine, Copper, and dissolved organic material removal technique going. Do not wait until they are in the aquarium to deal with them.

    Biollante
     
  6. David

    David Prolific Poster

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    I am less sure of the negative effects of DOCs than I am of chlorine/chloramine and copper. I have noticed that DOCs are actually beneficial to anaerobic bacteria in the nitrogen cycle of a properly established tank. Thoughts?
     
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Think of DOC As Little Dissolved Turds... Can You Say "Whole House AC" Filter?

    Hi David,

    The reason for our biological filters is to deal with excess dissolved organic material. We certainly do not require any from our tap water. Nitrates and phosphates in our tap water are generally positive, at least from our aquariums point of view.:)

    Chloramines are probably the least worrisome on your list. For that, matter for mature, moderate to heavily planted tanks; chloramines and even sodium hypochlorite at normal residual levels for tap water are unlikely to do much harm.:eek-new:

    Copper at those levels are a threat to many invertebrates, breeding and development of some fish, immature biological filters, many mosses and a few macrophytes, though certainly helpful algae suppression.:)

    Increased DOC, well it is your tank and with enough excess biological filtration, okay it can be handled, but yuck!:disillusionment:

    While most of the world sees organic material in their drinking water undesirable… I do not know what to say, DOC is easily the biggest threat on the list… It is without a doubt why even in the great northern wastelands they spend so much on trying to oxidize it.;)

    Anaerobic bacteria, it depends unless you are going for de-nitrification, are not really all that desirable, in planted tanks we tend to like the Nitrates.:confused:

    Most folks avoid encouraging the sulfur cycle, kind of stinky…:rolleyes:

    I guess I do not understand,:eek: but I am really not very smart so there is much I do not understand.

    Biollante
     
  8. David

    David Prolific Poster

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    DOC, aka LDT (Little Dissolved Turds) :highly_amused::highly_amused::highly_amused:

    Realistically though, we're talking about 1ppm DOC. Surely every water supply (especially those that draw from surface water) are bound to have at least a little. Any idea of what your area's water reports mention in terms of DOC?

    You mentioned in-line carbon filters; I don't think I have the gumption to plumb a whole-house unit as we treat our drinking water already and everything else doesn't really concern me. But getting it out of the water before putting it into my tank I'm considering....can you recommend an in-line unit or a place to get one?

    About denitrifying bacteria, wouldn't this turn fish-harmful nitrite into nitrate for plants to use, still? I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything, just trying to make sense of what to expect.
     
  9. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Not Trying To Dis Your Water, Ok, Maybe A Little Dis

    Hi David,

    I really did not/do not want to overstate it. Your water is safe, tiny turds, notwithstanding.:highly_amused:

    Your water is just fine, with the use of a dechlorinator, you should be able to keep 90-95% of freshwater-planted-tank critters and plants.:)

    My advice is simply a cheap method of improving water quality even improve water softener performance. Should anyone add a reverse osmosis (RO) filter whole house filters improve the life expectancy and performance.

    Whole house filters are available from big box retailers for $15-50 and most folks can install them in well under an hour or have them installed for under $100, replacement filters (2-4 times a year) run $2-5.:)

    Actually, I do not believe most places have measurable DOC (at least high enough to require reporting). At the same time I do not think they pose a particular health risk, the Chlorine to render the tiny turds safe, performs that function.:calm:
    [HR][/HR]
    Nitrifying bacteria, Nitrobacter, oxidize nitrite (NO[SUB]2[/SUB][SUP]-[/SUP]) into nitrate (NO[SUB]3[/SUB][SUP]-[/SUP]), just as other bacteria; Nitrosomonas first oxidized ammonia (NH[SUB]3[/SUB]) into nitrite (NO[SUB]2[/SUB][SUP]-[/SUP]).

    Perhaps you are thinking of Nitrogen fixation, splitting Nitrogen gas (N[SUB]2[/SUB]), where each Nitrogen (N) molecule is combined (fixed) with three Hydrogen molecules producing ammonia (NH[SUB]3[/SUB]). High energy (lightening for example) can accomplish this. As can certain symbiotic bacteria, Rhizobium spp. associated with legumes are the most common example. Given your insistence on anaerobic bacteria, I guess this is your bug of choice since as I recall it can perform this task with no oxygen, I will have to look it up, but it seems as though one of the other actors has to have oxygen. I’ll try to look that up later or maybe a smart person can jump in and tell us.:D

    In our tanks, it is usually Azotobacter, we want, though cyanobacteria will also perform the function especially when there is too much DOC. Both Azotobacter and cyanobacteria are obligate anaerobes.:)

    Azotobacter, Nitrosomonas, and Nitrobacter are all aerobic.;)

    Denitrification, which we planted tank types usually find unhelpful, where anaerobic fungus and bacteria (Pseudomonas) use the oxygen from nitrates (NO[SUB]3[/SUB][SUP]-[/SUP]) producing gaseous Nitrogen (N[SUB]2[/SUB]).:)

    Beyond this I do not know what to say…:confused:

    Biollante
     
    #9 Biollante, Jul 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2012
  10. David

    David Prolific Poster

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    Thanks Biollante, you've given me the best explanations out of any poster I've had the pleasure of talking with thus far.

    I'm going to look into carbon filters tonight. Expect to be mentioned in my build journal for your help!:)

    I was planning on starting a foreground carpet of HC tonight as my aquariumfertilizer.com order just came in. You mentioned that I could grow 90-95% of aquarium flora safely. PLEASE tell me HC will be okay!!?!?! :p
     
  11. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Plant Friendly Carbon

    Hi David,

    I sometimes think people work to complicate the whole plant growing aquarium process, for the most part, we are growing weeds, many noxious, and most of our critters are pests in other contexts.
    :highly_amused:

    I often wonder if people who compliment me on my tanks would be as complimentary if I grew dandelions and crabgrass in my garden overrun by wild mice, rats and flies.
    :rolleyes::highly_amused:

    Hemianthus callitrichoides ‘Cuba’ is a plant many seem to struggle with, but it should do well in your water, it might prefer a little softer, but hey...

    [video=youtube;loH5kALsj34]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loH5kALsj34[/video]

    Plant friendly carbon, CO[SUB]2[/SUB] seems to be the biggest issue.

    I have found enriched substrates, worm poop, root tabs, Osmocote Plus, whatever help a lot.

    Biollante
     
  12. David

    David Prolific Poster

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    I have pressurized CO2 with a dual-stage regulator, Ideal valve with vernier micrometer, burkert 6011 solenoid, ADA bubble counter, and Danner supreme with fractionating impeller connected to my canister filter in-line for CO2. Two powerheads for circulation, and a drop-checker (still working on finding the best one). Out of all the research I've done, and the wisdom I've absorbed from Tom Barr and the other veterans on this site, CO2 is an area not to skimp on. I will be taking every measure possible to have a great CO2 system.

    I'm going to pick up some HC tonight and will grab some root tabs to boot. Pics to follow later tonight!
     
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