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why do my shrimp keep dieing?

Discussion in 'Inverts' started by ccLansman, May 16, 2008.

  1. ccLansman

    ccLansman Guru Class Expert

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    I have no idea why my ghost shrimp keep biting the dust. I have been doing normal water changes 1 once a week, i only lightly dose with khso4 and some microferts. But every time i add more shrimp they last 1-3days max and i come in and they are solid white and dead. What can be causing this? I had shrimp for a year or so and it’s just recently this has happened. I also dose the liquid co2 stuff but have cut that way down to once or twice a week at 5ml for my 60gal. Any light on this matter?

    Thanks
     
  2. tedr108

    tedr108 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Seachem Excel (CO2 stuff) contains glutaraldehyde, which is definitely not good for shrimp. I really can't say how sensitive shrimp are to this stuff -- you can easily find more info on this on the internet. Perhaps light doses are fine.

    My shrimp seem to go into a let's-congregate-in-the-corner-and-not-eat funk when my nitrates get to around 50ppm or above. Within 2 minutes of completing a 50% water change, they are back into action, eating again. I cannot say for sure that the nitrates are causing this, but my WCs fix something. This has not happened to me in months, mostly because I cut down on KNO3 dosing, substituting K2SO4.
     
  3. ccLansman

    ccLansman Guru Class Expert

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    well i stopped dosing the liquid co2 and most of them seem to be making it this time, i havent dosed any ferts in a few days just to see if that may also be causing it. I am going to dose today except for the liquid co2 and will see how it goes.
     
  4. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    I dose EI in my 180 and my shrimp are fine.......I have Amano and some cherries, so I think you will be okay with your nutes.

    I think it was the excel as this has caused issues for others..........

    As long as you keep up your weekly WC you should be okay from an overdose standpoint........
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    CRS's are the most sensitive species I know of to NO3.
    They are in bred like crazy and sensitive to ions.

    and yet here we have a noted CRS breeder using EI and has no issues:


    I've gone to 160 ppm or a tad higher for over a week with a few Amano deaths.
    Far higher than you should have if you keep shrimp.

    Generally, all you do is dose a little less and if the plants are effected, add a bit more KNO3 is all. The other thing is do more water changes, just like breeders do with Discus.

    These are common sense approaches.
    However, as you can clearly see, the CRS's are fine and breeding in profusion in Rain's tank's.

    What ferts do u put in ur CRS tanks? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum

    I'd suggest using culls, then go from there, acclimate very slowly also, so they are use to higher TDS's from all the ferts we add etc, not just dump them in all at once like many folks do.

    I've never had any issues with Cherries or Amano's, and that's after many years......

    I'll try some CRS's but I have more toxiciology related interest with them.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  6. ccLansman

    ccLansman Guru Class Expert

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    could overdosing traces kill the little guys? Someone mentioned that too much copper or iron may kill them.
     
  7. Panda

    Panda Guru Class Expert

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    Don't know about iron but copper can kill them.
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Question is, how much trace and what specifically.
    There is no data on this and folks like myth making, fear based aquarium keeping etc.
    But when I question them, suddenly they act like they know everything, but resort to personal semantics and ego rather than doing a darn thing to measure and test:rolleyes:

    I got some more CRS for this reason and can do such test now. Be a bit before I get culls, but I can measure Copper very well and most nutrients.

    I'll use a pair of small bare bottom tank without plants.
    This way I know it'll be due to the ferts alone vs the control(no ferts).

    I'd figure if you like shrimps, and bred them, want to learn more about them, then you need to know the real limits. You also should take care and have some ethics about testing them as well. Lose a few to save many.

    They are culls anyway.

    So it's not like you are taking them away from nature, or not getting any good use from them. Keeping them for your own personal enjoyment is hardly ethical in and of itself:cool:

    Shrimp slavery:)

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. ccLansman

    ccLansman Guru Class Expert

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    lol shrimp slavery... never really looked at it that way :p

    Well I keep losing my ghosts when I add them and I haven’t been dosing excel.

    My other question would be, does excess CO2 kill them? If the fish are not acting funny i am assuming that my co2 is not too high, and since co2 rises I would assume the bottom of the tank were they live should be relatively ok, but in any case can excess co2 kill them?
     
  10. tedr108

    tedr108 Lifetime Charter Member
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    I doubt that your CO2 is killing them.

    We may be missing the obvious here, but you are not overfeeding them, are you? I don't know much about ghost shrimp, but CRSs have eyes bigger than their stomachs. I killed a few by putting pellets in my tank specifically for them. Later, I heard that overfeeding can kill them and started letting them find their own food in the form of algae and from left over fish food scraps. I haven't had a loss in a long time since then.

    Another possibility: I did once kill a bunch of CRSs with copper, and the remnants of that copper lasted a month or two in my tank. Done any ich eradication with copper-based medicine recently?
     
  11. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    I am having a similar issue with Amano shrimps. After having algae issues:

    http://www.barrreport.com/algae-control/5011-algae-nutrient-levels.html

    I am now "almost" back on track with algae (yes, unfortunately algae are sill around"), so I am still using Excel daily in the suggested dosing (not more) and it's a couple of weeks that I am trying to follow the suggested Sachem Dosing:

    http://www.barrreport.com/co2-aquatic-plant-fertilization/5248-seachem-dosing-chart-what-your-toughts.html

    despite I don't add extra Iron every day.

    Well, after 10 days dosing that way, my biggest shrimps began to congregate to the surface, stopping to eat, above all in the evening. The smaller shrimps seem to be not affected by this weird behavior. That doesn't happen all the days though. Also, I got two deaths of those biggest shrimps. This is really weird, I got those big shrimps (2-3") 5 months ago and they have always been in very good health and very active around the tank.

    Here are the possible causes I am analyzing:

    1. Higher Co2: due to my algae problem, I have increased my Co2 dosage. My fish are fine though, I never saw a fish gasping on the surface and my Co2 permanent checker is usually light-green, almost yellow just in the evening (I turn Co2 off at night).

    2. Daily Excel in the recommended dosage (7.5ml a day for my 75gl tank).

    3. Increased fertilization by following Seachem schedule.

    I am trying to reduce fertilization gradually, but I am thinking to try to reduce daily Excel dosage too just to understand where is the problem.

    Any thoughts are very welcome.

    Thanks!

    Fab.
     
  12. ccLansman

    ccLansman Guru Class Expert

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    well i hate to say this but i never did figure out why they passed on.. I did get a shipment of cherrys in last week and they seem to be doing great! I know for sure that the excess co2 will not kill them if the fish are fine. As far as ferts, there are quite a few people who follow EI and have no issues. This would tell me that unless the ferts are suuuuuuper over dosed they should be good. I have stopped using excel and guess this may have been the cause, i would do an extra WC and stop using excel. If you have pressurized co2 i would rely on that.
     
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Shrimps are pretty tough.
    I have the cherries, Crystals, Amano's, never any issues with them at high dosing(if you think I modify my dosing for my shrimp, ahahahaaaa, you'd be very very wrong), like I have been doing for decades I guess now.

    CO2, well, that takes more skill and fine tuning.
    Good food/feeding routines, clean filters etc, water changes etc.

    I am not doing anything weird or unknown, no secrets.

    So I really do not see what the issue is.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  14. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Thank you for your replies. The strange behavior started right when I began to follow the Seachem schedule, in particular adding Nitrogen. Before that I used Excel (not overdosed, just at the recommended dosage) for several weeks (let's say, 6 weeks) and I never noticed such a behavior and never had casualties. I got two deaths in 2 weeks starting fertilizing that way.

    Today I made a 50% WC and now most of the big Amano shrimps are back working (there is still just one guy up there sleeping). I will try to avoid nitrogen and to reduce fertilization in the next couple of weeks, then I will let you know my results.

    Thank you.

    Best,
    Fab.
     
  15. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    UPDATE: As I mentioned earlier, after the 50% WC yesterday, most of the big Amano shrimps were "back to work" with the exception of one guy. Today I have still two guys upthere "sleeping". I didn't add any Excel since the last WC and I just added Flourish in the recommended dose this morning. Co2 is always pretty high (drop checker light green, almost yellow).

    This issue is very annoying and I hate to see the big Amanos doing nothing all the day long without to know what's the cause... that is really frustrating!

    I will wait until tomorrow without doing nothing further. I will let you know. Eventually I will do another water change in 2 days (I really don't what else try!). I doubt Co2 could be the cause... don't you?

    Thanks.

    Fab.
     
  16. helgymatt

    helgymatt Guru Class Expert

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    I'm new to CRS. Mine hide in the back corner all the time. They rarely venture out in front. They are not dying, but multiplying...

    Are they...
    1. Light sensitive?
    2. Scarred of my SAE?
    3. Just like good cover?
    4. Night owls?
     
  17. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Well, the three CRS I just "installed" ( first time with them ) seem to be pretty active during the day. They pretty much just park themselves in a spot overnight unless I shine a light on them or one of the corys plows into them while zipping around the tank. I did find one in the Chamber of Death the other day. Since I left the strainer on the pump it was no worse for wear and seems to have gone back to work with no damage I can see. I'm hoping I have a bit more luck with these guys vs. the Apple Snails I had earlier. I haven't hit them with a tap water change just yet so we'll find out soon enough. ( I picked up some Prime for that as well )

    -
    S
     
  18. SuperColey1

    SuperColey1 Guru Class Expert

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    I've never heard of any creature dying from being 'overfed'!!! It's natural for all creature to gorge as unlike human's they don't know when their next food will be. Then they tend to be like human's after a big Chinese or Sunday Roast and lounge in the sofa for a few days and maybe sleep it off :D

    If the CO2 was too high I would suspect the fish would be at the top already. They will go up there before danger levels are reached as O becomes lesser in the lower regions.

    As for hiding, I think that must have something to do with the other inhabitants or conditions not to shrimps liking within the tank. My cherrys are in with Corys and Microrasboras and Otos and are ignorant of any danger at all. they even tug on algae pellets trying to retrieve them from under the corys mounts ;)

    I haven't found them to be sensitive in the least. In fact when I open my cannister to clean every month there are tons in there alive and well. Some must've been in there since the beginning of the month!! I have overdosed EasyCarbo (Cheaper version of Excel) and Excel itself in this tank with no problems.

    This is in an EI dosed tank with lime to yellow DCs (1 each end of the tank.) I started with 14 and I can't count them now as there are far too many. I don't need red plants in this tank :D

    I can only assume that something with your water parameters is killing them. Maybe rock or wood or substrate that is playing with parameters or maybe something else that I am not thinking of at the moment!!!

    AC
     
  19. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    I agree with that. Here is my experience in detail:

    1. I got these big Amano shrimps on october (I call them "big" because they are around 2" long) and they never stopped for 4 months! They were always working around, never stop.

    2. Then I began to follow the Seachem fertilization schedule, and I began to find them in the up corner sleeping in the evening. I also got 3 casualties in the following 2 weeks.

    3. Now, I have stopped the Seachem schedule since the last WC (50%, two days ago) and I have just added Flourish yesterday. Well, I have just 3 of this big guys left in my tank, and yesterday just one of them was back to work as normal, whereas the other two guys stayed up sleeping all the day long. I am afraid they are going to die soon if they don't eat!

    Please note: I didn't change anything in my "normal routine" except trying to follow the Seachem schedule (that I have stopped now). The only other idea is that they are simply old and are going to die for a natural cause.... what do you think? I am beginning to think that because I have other 20 small shrimps and they are healthy and always working around.

    Thank you for your thoughts.

    Best,
    Fab.
     
  20. osnapitseric

    osnapitseric Junior Poster

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    i too have noticed some of my CRS dying off yet my amanos are doing fine. I don't know whats going on. I do have a theory, a weak one at that but i might as well throw it out. Since shrimps especially sensitive to NO3, i started to dose using dry ferts. Here's the catch, i mix the ferts in a small glass of water then dumping it in the tank. Can the sudden increase of NO3 when dumping the ferts into the tank cause some deaths? If you does the dry ferts directly into the tank, the ferts takes time to dissolve so the increase concentration of NO3 isn't has dramatic.

    As for overfeeding, i highly doubt it. Perhaps under feeding? But then again, shrimps need very little to sustain itself and they will eat almost anything. I don't even worry about feeding my fish. I would assume they would find algae or left over food my tetras havent eaten.
     
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