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why did discus become more and more thin in planted tank?

Discussion in 'Talk to Tom Barr' started by a-hua, Jan 22, 2010.

  1. a-hua

    a-hua Subscriber

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    hi

    i had kept 4 (3-3.5 inches) discus in 300L EI planted tank for 1 years, 26 C, fed them frozen food 2 times a day. on the first 4 months they grew some, but then became more and more thin slowly .....unhealthy....finally 3 of them died.....

    why? the other fishes in the same tank lived realy well !

    by the way, i did not used any medicine, is that necessary for discus??? i read that many discus folks use medicine very often (in bare discus tank).

    i am so depressd, help~~

    a-hua
     
  2. The Rockster

    The Rockster Guru Class Expert

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    Discus Books, and Forums

    Hi,

    I have had Discus for decades.

    Standard breakfast for a lot of Discus keepers in planted tanks is/was Tetra Color Bits soaked with Seachem Garlic guard.........after that fresh is best.........California Blood Worms if they are available or some frozen with high protein (Mysis Shrimp is good, as is Wattley Discus Formula, Freshwater Pak etc.

    Full grown fish seem to flourish with 2 times a day feeding...........
    Juvies usually need more feedings........

    A diet of frozen bloodworms will make them thin.

    Variety is a necessity with Discus. Some use Discus vitamins as well.......(Seachem, and Kent sell them.)

    Because fry and juvenile Discus require many feedings daily and seem to grow out the healthiest with a beefheart mixture ( which is not compatable with a planted tank), most suggest that only fully grown Discus are kept in planted tanks.
    We like a lot of Discus keepers, use a barebottom, "growout tank/QT tank for the premature fish. Its easier to clean and keep an eye on them.

    You should "google", your dietary and other Discus questions, as well as join the Discus Forums. (Simply Discus, Discus Forums, etc) There you will learn what to feed and how to maintain and house the fish. Also, lots of good books and articles on the" King of Tropical Fish", and their requirements.

    This will save you money and grief.

    Good luck
     
  3. misha

    misha Junior Poster

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    The answer to your question is simple. I am not a discus keeper, but in this hobby for some time. Temperature of 26C for discus is too cold. discus require temperature around 30C. The main reson that not every plant is good for discus tank
    is that most plants and discus require different temperature, plants don't like 30 degree.Next time before you'll get discus do some reserch on the net. Regards. misha
     
  4. The Rockster

    The Rockster Guru Class Expert

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    Hi,
    I don't agree that the answer is simple.

    Most answers are not. Most problems are multifaceted. For one who has never kept discus, i find your reasoning questionable. In fact so do others:

    Below are the recommended temperatures for Discus Aquarium Fish tanks:

    Display – 27.5 to 29°C
    Breeding – 30 to 33°C
    Growing On – 29 to 31°C

    http://www.agua-fish.net/show.php?h=discusfish

    My experience with water temps are the higher the temps the higher the discus metabolism and their growth rate.

    Most folks don't know the difference in keeping "wild discus (Heckels) versus farm raised ones.

    Most discus suffer from "stress", which weakens their immune system making them susceptible to disease and eventually death........indications are darking in color and clamping of fins, and loss of appetite..........

    You never mentioned what tank mates they had, which is important...........for the stress factor
    The following are the best tank mates:
    14 different Tetras
    Black Neon Tetras to Rummy Nose Tetras
    The smaller Tetras will be eaten by the larger discus.

    There are other fish compatible with discus, however, many believe they don't belong in a community tank, but a species only tank. There are signs to look for listed above.

    Different fish have different requirements to survive and flourish. Discus need pristine water conditions, some claim low TDS, and very frequent water changes..........we do 50 % weekly......and they are fine (Our breeder J. Wattley does the same w/cs a week, on his planted tanks......)

    Discus friendly plants:
    Anubias
    Vallisneria
    Lily Bulbs
    Water Oignon
    rolata indica
    java fern

    Amazon Sword Plants- May not be included in theis list, however, they are part of the discus native habitat. Also, they favor rich substrate and prevent autotrophisation.

    The above list is from Amano Discus Tanks List.
     
    #4 The Rockster, Jan 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 22, 2010
  5. a-hua

    a-hua Subscriber

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    appreciating your replies.

    i will raise the temperature to 27-28C(82F), but can not feed the discus dry foods. i tried to starve them and train before, but they just did not like. i do not understand why A diet of frozen bloodworms will make them thin???? i live in taiwan. what i feed discus are frozen blood worm and brine shimp.

    i do not want to feed beefheart mixture, because a german websitei article said that discus can not assimilate the mammals' fattiness(?).

    the tank mates are a group of small tetra and shrimp only, nothing else.

    what should i do if my discus is thin already in planted tank??? what about Metronidazole or MgSO4?? by the way, i never see discus has white faeces.
     
    #5 a-hua, Jan 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2010
  6. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Simply Discus

    Hi,

    The Rockster has given you some really good advice. :) I also recommend Simply Discus . http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/index.shtml

    Discus can be thin for a number of reasons; one reason is Discus’ are complex highly developed creatures that require a varied diet. Bloodworms are fine but simply do not provide a complete, well-rounded diet. Brine Shrimp tend to be of minimal nutritional value and are very high fiber (roughage). I really do recommend Food & Nutrition.;) http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/foods_nutritions/index.shtml

    I will concede that Discus may not fully metabolize mammal fats beef hearts are quite lean. It is hard to argue with some German site somewhere. It is the great thing about the internet, if you do not like the advice one place you can get other advice somewhere else. My suspicion is that while they may not like beef heart, they likely also recommend a varied diet, featuring among other thing mysis shrimp and a variety of worms.:)

    Metronidazole is fine if you know, your Discus have protozoan or particular anaerobic bacterial infection. I think it is most likely dietary, but that can stress your Discus to the point that infections take hold. Again, I recommend reading at Simply Discus, Diseases and Medication. http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/index.shtml

    Bollante
     
    #6 Biollante, Jan 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2010
  7. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Autotrophisation?

    Hi,

    I am unfamiliar with the term "autotrophisation," can you help me?:eek:

    Thank-you,
    Biollante
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I think what has been stated for Discus does apply to most fish, variety.
    I fed only live brine for live foods, maybe some earthworms, bugs that get caught around the home.

    Lots of different frozen, mysis are excellent.
    Vitamins, protein powders(stuff for weight lifters) etc be added, even soaking in milk etc.
    Good flake foods etc, and whole bay shrimp, algae pellets.

    That's about 10 things.

    Temp, I've had them bred at 28C without issue.
    82F seems fine to me.

    Careful on discus only sites, they are just interested in the fish and max brood/fry, growth.
    There's a little trade off with plants, not a lot, but it's not the end of the world as many like to say either.

    Mostly the pH rubbish, but the temp can be a bit lower than you might think as well.
    Stick with low KH, not pH, TDS is not going to make a large difference either.
    Nor NO3 ppms with planted systems etc or light.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     

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