Why alternate between macro and trace?

davej

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A friend asked me why in EI you dose Macros one day and trace the next.
Why not all on one day and then skip a day before repeating?
Wasnt sure, so I thought I would throw this out there.
 

Sintei

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is hihohiho shortened for something or simply a friendly "hi"?
 

Tom Barr

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Sorry, I had to email you a PM for that, I had trouble posting here, Greg was probably up to no good working on the site:)

"is hihohiho shortened for something or simply a friendly "hi"?"

Hi, but I could not post what I'd wanted so I just plain gave up till later.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

davej

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So I guess I will ask the question again in another way.
Is there any reason not dose Macros and traces on the same day?
Would it be bad to dose everything on the same day and then skip a day , and then repeat ?
 

Laith

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The reason that it was originally suggested to dose them on seperate days was to avoid the risk of the Iron and Phosphate reacting together to form Iron Phosphate and precipitate out of solution, making the water cloudy and at the same time making the Iron less readily available to the plants.

However, given the low concentration levels once in the tank water, I've never noticed a problem with dosing them the same day. I do allow some time between adding the two though.

On the other hand, I wouldn't store concentrated micros in the same container with concentrated macros. In this case you will definitely get precipitation.
 

Sintei

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Do you dose Macros along with Traces on Waterchanges? Or do you wait with Traces until next day?
Also, Iron is less readily at high pH. Shouldnt we dose the Traces after a couple of hours of CO2 beeing on, lowering the pH?
 

Tom Barr

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I typiclly dose traces the following day, some don't, does not matter too much.

As far as pH, that is not so important as alkalinity, that does not change, just like the fish health due to large pH changes etc when we do water changes etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Sintei

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Could we clarify things?
Is there gain in adding macros and traces 1 day apart?
Is there a gain in adding traces in lower pH (as some of the iron gets less readily in >6.5 pH).
 

Tom Barr

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Stop thinking of pH, think about alkaninity in terms of bioavailabilty here.
KH is stable, pH can be moved with CO2 all over, does higher CO2 levels cause nutrients to be more bioavailable?

That's a different question.

pH alone in our context does not fully address the issue.
KH or CO2 do.

Lower KH's by default have lower pH's at ambient levels of CO2.

Most folks like to get the most out of their traces, so many do not dose on the same day, some like the very other day routine because it's easier for them to remember to dose.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

2wheelsx2

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Hmmm....so it's not anything to do with a "feast or famine" scenario? I was thinking that maybe having everything dosed every other day might have adverse affected plant or fish health. I guess I was making too much of an animal analogy, where multiple small meals a day is more efficient than fewer larger meals.
 

Sintei

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Tom Barr;11214 said:
Stop thinking of pH, think about alkaninity in terms of bioavailabilty here.
KH is stable, pH can be moved with CO2 all over, does higher CO2 levels cause nutrients to be more bioavailable?

Im only thinking of pH as many people use citric acid to lower pH in their trace-mix. Also in emers plant growing they use low pH with their traces cause iron gets chelated in pH > 6.5 (and some of the iron in pH >4.5).

But you mean with higher alkalinity iron gets less readily and we should instead aim for low alkalinity (and salinity)?
 

Tom Barr

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2wheelsx2;11242 said:
Hmmm....so it's not anything to do with a "feast or famine" scenario? I was thinking that maybe having everything dosed every other might have adversed affected plant or fish health. I guess I was making too much of an animal analogy, where multiple small meals a day is more efficient than fewer larger meals.

Plants and many animals are more flexible, snakes etc can go a month etc without food just fine.

Some plants fall into wide ranges as well, but all can handle a 1-3 day window for the most part under higher light etc without too much effect.

Yes, aim for lower KH rather than pH, you will still maybe want to add an acid to maintain the traces , but not in the tank itself, in ther bottle is another matter, I suggest HCL for that rather than citric.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 

reiverix

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I've switched from dosing traces every other day to every day. The reason being is that it's just convenient for me to get up in the morning and squirt in the ferts. I can't see any difference in plant growth at all. I still dose macros every other day and that's after I get home from work.