This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

When is better to saturate Co2 after lights come on?

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by fablau, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    2:06 PM
    This is probably a basic question, but I am having an hard time to understand what's the best way to move: with my current setup, my Co2 takes something like 4-5 hours to saturate and reach the needed 30ppm. I used to start Co2 very early in the morning, several hours before my lights turn on, but now I have postponed Co2 injection to start just 2 hours before lights turn on, so that Co2 saturation is reached about 2-3 hours after lights start. Is that ok, or would be better to saturate earlier, so that plants have plenty of Co2 from the beginning of the light cycle?
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,684
    Likes Received:
    695
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    Should hit 30 ppm in less than an hour.
     
  3. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    2:06 PM
    Ok, thank you Tom, then with my current system (am1000) I need to start Co2 4 hours before lights start, otherwise saturation is reached late. My system is pretty slow despite I have increased bps from 4bps to 5bps.

    I am waiting for a Rio Plus 600 pump with Venturi injection to replace my current am1000 reactor based system, so hopefully that will be more efficient.

    I will update this thread as soon as I get the new pump.

    Thanks!
     
  4. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    958
    Likes Received:
    9
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    Fablau, what size is your tank and how are you feeding water through the Am1000?

    You shouldn't have any trouble hitting the target in 1 hour, I suspect your bubble rate is way to low...
     
  5. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    2:06 PM
  6. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    37
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    Crank up your bubble count...I can't even count my bubbles.

    [video]http://s1197.photobucket.com/user/UDGags/media/VID_20140106_225608_538_zps0ldft91p.mp4.html[/video]

    P.S. when you do crank it up be sure to be around so you can watch your fish and make sure you don't overshoot and kill them
     
    #6 UDGags, Jan 6, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2014
  7. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    2:06 PM
    Wow, your bubble rate is high! What tank size you have? What's your PH drop? When (what time) do you turn your Co2 on and off?

    Sorry for so many questions, but I am trying to understand and learn :) thanks!
     
  8. scottward

    scottward Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2007
    Messages:
    958
    Likes Received:
    9
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    Yup. For a 75g tank you're going to need to crank the CO2 more than 5bps!!

    You won't be able to count the bubbles so you are going to need a vernier handle with markings or something to use a reference point. You might be able to make little tick marks on your needle valve, say 12 marks around it so that you can turn it up "1 hour" at a time.

    You'll have to watch your bubble counter and know your needle valve to know if turning such an amount makes much of a difference to the rate or not. You can then systematically keep increasing the nv until your plants start doing well. But yeah, don't make any dramatic changes unless you are home to keep an eye on the system. Very small changes are ok though.

    Scott.
     
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,684
    Likes Received:
    695
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    Bubble rates are rarely the best method.

    pH is king.
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,684
    Likes Received:
    695
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    Bubble rates are rarely the best method.

    pH is king.
     
  11. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    Regardless of the bubble rate, if the measured pH drops something like 1 degree(when measure without stray electricity) is it a good starting point for thr 30ppm mark?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Regardless of the bubble rate, if the measured pH drops something like 1 degree(when measure without stray electricity) is it a good starting point for the 30ppm mark?
     
  12. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    2:06 PM
    With my current setting I get a drop of 1.2. I am tweaking it and watching it though, very slowly as Tom suggested. The next week I will probably try to increase it to a drop of 1.3, but since I want to try to replace the am1000 with a needle wheel pump, I will have to check how Co2 saturation will work first with the NWP before to make any additional adjustment to the needle valve.

    Thank you guys, it is comforting to know that I can go over 5bps if needed!
     
  13. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2013
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    Well ur system is quite the type of system i shall have one day, so im kinda learning in here :p
    Specially since i dont know anything about dry wet sumps :p

    I test my ph by placing a cup of glass on thetank and testing ph on that glass outside of tank, in my case i use a ph digital pen, dunno if you can use the ph meter on that
     
  14. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    37
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM

    125g tank, CO2 comes on 30 minutes before lights turn on and goes off 30 minutes before lights turn off

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I do need to seal some things up better but been doing maintenance, replanting, etc. so I haven't sealed it all up. I suspect if I seal it the rate would be slightly lower. Not a huge deal since CO2 is dirt cheap.
     
    #14 UDGags, Jan 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2014
  15. oliverpool

    oliverpool Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    What PH drop should we expect in 1 hour to know that it is close to 30ppm Tom?
     
  16. Solcielo lawrencia

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,007
    Likes Received:
    43
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    The pH depends on the kH. So your question depends on what your kH is. Generally, if your kH is high, a 1 pH drop will probably gas your fish. If it's low, a 1 degree drop will not be enough. Look at the pH/kH table for a reference.
     
  17. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    2:06 PM
    Wow, those are two very cool graphs! From what I see, you get a drop of about 1.4 from PH 7.6 to PH 6.2, that's pretty close to what I am trying to reach. May I ask what is your KH?

    Also, from the graph I can's see well, but how long does it take for your system to have the complete drop? 1 hour?

    Thanks!
     
    #17 fablau, Jan 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2014
  18. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    2:06 PM
    How to you read the ph/KH table with relative values such as a PH drop?
     
  19. UDGags

    UDGags Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    37
    Local Time:
    10:06 PM
    You take whatever your kH is and whatever your pH is and find them on the chart. The value is the maximum CO2 you can possibly have in your tank. It has nothing to do with the pH drop.


    Here is a zoomed in on the drop only..you should be able to read the times. My kH is about 4.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    2:06 PM
    Thank you, I see it takes about 2 hours and 1/2, faster than my system based on a am1000 reactor which takes up to 4 hours to drop PH of 1.2. What Co2 injection system do you have? Disc, reactor or needle wheel pump?

    As for the PH/KH table, I can't read correct values there since with my high KH (7) and the PH of 6.2 I reach with co2, I should have over 100ppm of Co2, which is likely not the case.

    As I have discussed here below:

    http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php?t=13418

    I have to use the relative PH drop to understand the Co2 ppm in the water... But I haven't quite understood yet how to practically do it through the PH/KH chart, despite several folks there told me that a drop of 1-1.2 is well around 30ppm.

    Do you have any more thoughts on this?
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice