What makes a better needle valve?

scottward

Guru Class Expert
Oct 26, 2007
958
10
18
Brisbane, Australia
Whoo hoo!!!!

Just got a Nupro B-SS4-A from Surpluscenter.com. Was only $9.95 and only $35 for shipping!!

It's brand new. I understand that Nupro and Swagelok are exactly the same.

Ill see if I can get the connectors and vernier handle for a good price somewhere, otherwise Ill just get them straight from Swagelok.
 

iani

Junior Poster
Oct 1, 2011
26
0
1
Nice deal but if shipping is that expensive you may as well get 2 valves. It would be nice to have a backup valve just in case for 10 dollars extra.
 

scottward

Guru Class Expert
Oct 26, 2007
958
10
18
Brisbane, Australia
I figured I shouldn't need a backup, these are very high quality valves that should last a life time. I'm sure a company like Swagelok would help me out if there was a problem with it....?

There is only a very small number left, I thought other guys on here might want one too so figured I would just buy one.

Postage cost is bufferred given the good deal on the valve itself.

It is embossed with 'Nupro' so I figured it was manufactured a while back before Swagelok acquired Nupro, but the quality and spec is absolutely the same from what I can see....

Scott.
 
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scottward

Guru Class Expert
Oct 26, 2007
958
10
18
Brisbane, Australia
Hi guys,

Now that I've ordered the B-SS4-A, I'm just deciding what I want to do regarding the fittings....

I found this:
https://www.swagelok.com/downloads/webcatalogs/EN/MS-13-151.pdf

This is helpful.

Can't find anything regarding the actual installation of the tube fittings (second last page, page 119)....
On page 14 there is a diagram that looks like a metering valve...
So I remove the nut and the ferules, slip the tube fitting inside the nut, and then screw the nut back on? I don't actually need the ferules in this particular setup do I? And I tighten up the nut by hand then an extra 1.5 times with a tool (after marking the nut first with a sharpie)?
Assuming I have this right, kevmo, why would I have a hard time removing this? Wouldn't I just have to undo the nut and it would come apart easily?

I understand with the other option, that I feed the tube stub into the nut and ferules and then tighten it up (and I can remove it by loosing the nut up enough such that the ferule no longer grasps the tube stub). If I understand this option correctly, there is no need to remove the nut at all. Why would this damage the ferules by the way?

Finally, is there no option to remove the nut and connect a hose barb adaptor to the thread where the nut normally screws on? I guess not, but just thought I'd ask....

Scott.

Oh - also - I was reading that you shouldn't close the needle valve tightly - I guess it is ok to close the needle valve just until resistance is felt as it 'seats' but then apply no further force? Why is there a stop screw? Is this to stop people forcing the needle closed, or is it to lock in a setting? Perhaps there are 2 'grub' screws and I am getting them confussed?
 

kevmo911

Member
Oct 19, 2010
67
0
6
44
Greensboro, NC
You always need the ferrules (they're what mash the tubing - metal or soft - or adapter, into the port). They clamp down on whatever's inside, and the process deforms them. They're one use only.

The stop screw keeps people from closing the valve all the way. The needle is very fragile, and the S series isn't designed to cut off flow entirely.
 

scottward

Guru Class Expert
Oct 26, 2007
958
10
18
Brisbane, Australia
Cool, thanks.

So I remove the nut and *leave the ferules as they are*, slip the tube fitting inside the nut, and then screw the nut back on? And I tighten up the nut by hand then an extra 1.5 times with a tool (after marking the nut first with a sharpie)?

I can just then push the flexible tubing onto the barbed fittings and pull it off when I like? Or do I put the flexible tubing on first, and then tighten the nut?

Scott.
 

scottward

Guru Class Expert
Oct 26, 2007
958
10
18
Brisbane, Australia
oldpunk;104804 said:


Thanks oldpunk.

I had already found that guide....I found info in it on installing tube fittings, but not on installing a brass insert.....

I note that kevmo911 mentioned I might have a heck of a time removing it down the track so I'm assuming that it gets jammed into the compression nut somehow? I assume brute force will be the tool of the trade to install it?

Scott.

P.S. I bought a couple of inserts and a vernier handle kit also, both directly from Swagelok as I couldn't find any good "deals" anywhere on these items.
 

D-Linquent

New Member
Feb 25, 2013
22
0
1
Why is that part cheap? Is it because of the nupro name?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 

oldpunk

Guru Class Expert
Dec 1, 2009
427
4
18
D-Linquent;105325 said:
Why is that part cheap? Is it because of the nupro name?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

It's just old stock. New, those are around $90.
 

D-Linquent

New Member
Feb 25, 2013
22
0
1
oldpunk;105362 said:
It's just old stock. New, those are around $90.

Any reason not to get one of these for a future regulator I will put together for another tank? I'm still working on my first, but I figure I'll get there eventually.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 

Darkblade48

Guru Class Expert
Dec 16, 2009
147
0
16
D-Linquent;105368 said:
Any reason not to get one of these for a future regulator I will put together for another tank? I'm still working on my first, but I figure I'll get there eventually.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Only if perhaps you are looking for something else.

New "old" stock (as it is sometimes known) is fine.
 

scottward

Guru Class Expert
Oct 26, 2007
958
10
18
Brisbane, Australia
Received all the bits today, needle valve and vernier handle look good, but unfortunately the b-405-2 insert doesn't fit inside my tubing, so my tubing isn't 1/8" ID, it's larger than that.

The OD of the tubing fits nicely inside the tubing hole on the needle valve, so the OD is either 1/4" or 6mm.

So I guess the ID of my tubing is either 4mm or 3/16".

I can't see how it could be anything else?

Hopefully Swagelok will let me exchange the insert for the next larger B-405-3, which suits 3/16" ID. http://www.swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=B-405-3&item=

4mm and 3/16, close enough that if the tubing is 4mm ID it will fit on the 405-3 insert just fine?

Is the tubing meant to fit snugly enough on the insert that it's sealed up anyway, or is it meant to just slip over loosely such that the ferrules do all the work?

Scott.
 

oldpunk

Guru Class Expert
Dec 1, 2009
427
4
18
You have 6mm x 4mm tubing. You need the 4mm insert and 6mm ferrules. The 1/4" ferrules will work though.
 

oldpunk

Guru Class Expert
Dec 1, 2009
427
4
18
scottward;109467 said:
oldpunk, so the B-405-3 won't be close enough to use?

Can't seem to find a 4mm equivalent that will go in b-ss4....

Thanks for your help, appreciate it.
You need Swagelok # B-6M5-4M
 

scottward

Guru Class Expert
Oct 26, 2007
958
10
18
Brisbane, Australia
Ah beauty!

Cheers mate!

Given that the port (i.e. the "hole") on the B-SS4-A is 1/4", so ~6.35mm in diameter, it would seem crazy if the .35mm extra mattered, so, yeah this looks like it should work fine.

I'll give Swagelok a call shortly and hopefully I can exchange what I have without too much hassle....

Just as a plan B - is there any othe options here? Could I "double sleeve" the existing B-405-2, i.e put a sleeve of very thing tubing over it and then put the 6/4 tubing that I have over the top? Or could I not use the B-405-2 and use a sort length of metal rod instead? Might be a bit dodgy though and leak somehow...

Scott.
 

oldpunk

Guru Class Expert
Dec 1, 2009
427
4
18
In theory, any anything close to 4mm should work. Those ferrules crush down pretty good. I don't see why your swagelok dealer wouldn't have what you need considering most of what they service is metric where you live.
 

scottward

Guru Class Expert
Oct 26, 2007
958
10
18
Brisbane, Australia
While waiting for the new tube fittings to arrive, I decided to fit the vernier handle. I'm stuck right at the start though - I can't get the handle screw out - the little 1/16 hex grub screw, it is stuck. Any ideas how to get it out?