What kind of thread algae is this?

Petex

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hi,
Did anyone know what algae is this?
photo: http://img4.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/talgae1e52ybrcw07.jpg
Microscope photo: http://www.naturaquaristik-live.de/attachment.php?id=14860&
I asked a so called "algae expert guy" who shoots that photo, but he also wasn´t able to indentify this algae -nor- how to get ever rid off it.

The algae can build pretty long threads and attach plants. It can´t be fight with lowering light / Blackouts, EC, ferts or so.
It is pretty more stuborn thing like Clado and will still be introduced through new plants.

The biggest problem with this algae is:
If plants are healthy and as better the conditions for the plants = as better this algae will grow for sure. :p

So this makes killing this thing somehow difficult.
I know that I can kill this algae with H202, but dosing must be very high and I am affraid it will kill my rare plants. So I am looking for a "more safer chemical solution".
Is there any?


thx. peter
 
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Tug

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Hi peter,
It looks like a non-branching green filamentous algae. :eek:
Continue to remove it manually, try and improve water circulation. Most likely your nutrients are not the problem but you might have low levels of Oxygen=poor surface agitation and/or a dirty filter.

Petex;78951 said:
I know that I can kill this algae with H202, but dosing must be very high and I am affraid it will kill my rare plants. So I am looking for a "more safer chemical solution".
Is there any?

A 50% weekly water change is the only "chemical solution" I can suggest, sorry. :eek:
 
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nipat

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talgae1e52ybrcw07.jpg


attachment.php


It seems to be unbranched. And it looks like Spirogyra. But in microscopic picture, there is
no spiral chloroplast. Hmmm.

Oedogonium? But I've never seen it grows this long.


....Mougeotia? :confused:
 

Petex

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but you might have low levels of Oxygen=poor surface agitation and/or a dirty filter.
Did this look like low Oxygen levels? ;)
http://img4.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/kkkkr6ybac2hjp.jpg
There is no dirty filter, waterflow is good with fine surface agitation + plant grow is fine. But like I told --> as better the plant grow condition --> as better this algae grows.
This is not a "typical algae". It has the same behaviour like Cladophora that "nothing can stop it" :p - still a little bit more worst: You can not remove it manuelly if it attachs on stones, leafs, gravel and so on.

@Nipat
It didn´t show the "typical" End caps like Oedogonium and seems also no Spirogyra.
I first thought it could be a Microspora, but obvisously it could be also like you say a Mougeotia?
What did we exactly know about those algaes?
 

Biollante

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Hi Peter,


Cannot be Cladophora since it is a branching alga.

Quite certain it is not Mougeotia.


Microspora Thuret maybe from macro photograph except, except microphotograph cell walls would have an “H” shape. A look at the ends should reveal distinct holdfast. Microspora is problematic since it is not a well-defined group.

I rather like Microspora for this; can you get microphotograph of the ends?

The fact that you have a hard time removing it suggests to me that it is Oedogonium as its filament has both a holdfast disc and a calyptra.

To me the microphotograph appears to be 40X, magnification Oedogonium, there are a number of “curly” species, I cannot get my brain to come up with the species, I know, I know it.


Oedogonium is usually associated with low CO[SUB]2[/SUB] rather than low DO.



Biollante
 

Biollante

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Good Photos!

Hi Peter,


Actually those are pretty good photos!:glee:



I like Oedogonium, based on these microphotographs I am sure it is not Microspora. :)


It is just the macro photograph does not seem like Oedogonium… :cower:



Well I will give it some more thought and a bit more searching.


Biollante
 

Petex

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So any idea what algae this is?
(Amano shrimp may eat this stuff, but I do not want to put my Amano in the Nano tank)

So, I tested days ago around with this plague and what to do next and came up to the following results:
# This Thread algae did not die @plant safe EC dosing
# This Thread algae did not die @plant safe Monolinuron dosing
# This Thread algae will die @0.5ml H202 Spotthreatment applied via. syringe over 3days (**) and thats pretty safe dosing for "harder" plants like Marsilea sp. - nevertheless, it may harm (but not kill) more sensitive plants. At last it isn´t any big problem to do small H202 Spottrreathments, but I want to get the whole tank 100% free from this weed.

So, I am looking for sugestions about "plant, critters & fish safe H202 dosing for whole tank".
(I know there was a dutch/netherland website with pretty much information about h202 tank dosing (calculator), toxic levels and so on but I have lost the link)

Anyone here with closer H202 experience who can suggest anything?


(** as compare: Cladophora dies @0.3ml Spotthreatment over 2days and this means that this Thread algae is much harder to kill)
 
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Petex

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Tank size is ~4Gal (11Liter) with Pressured Co2 and 12W T4 bulb (HO). [Tank messures 42cm lenght, 17cm deep and 16cm high]
It is not a scape tank, it is simply a tank where I still collection Nano plants (Ammanias, Cupheas, Toninas, Mini Macrandra and so on.)
Here you can see some threads between this (new) InVitro Rotala and Cuphea:
http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/9kdv87inxq6.jpg

There are not much threads, but enough that it starts to disturbs me.
I can really not need this algae and want to get rid off it. But, in this tank are a few Moskito Boraras, so I do not want any "unsafe H202" fish dosing. I am looking for "fish safe" solution.
 
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Biollante

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Hi Peter,

I am afraid I do not have any original, brilliant or otherwise, ideas.:eek:


I forwarded the photographs to see if we can get identification on the algae.

Try not to break the algae; best guess is that is the major method of reproduction.

The infected plant looks quite healthy so you may be able to dip the plant(s) in a 20-ppm Potassium permanganate solution for 15 to 20 minutes and give a shot at saving the plant. You will probably have to remove the infected leaves.


I think you are probably going to need to cut the algae out, it may mean sacrificing or severely cutting the infected plant(s) back.

Best guess is there is too much of a bio-load; the plants and biological filtration are not keeping up, your dissolved organic carbon (DOC) and total Nitrogen (TN).

Hydrogen peroxide can be effective but it is hard to know how much to dose as it is a function of DOC and is very easy to overdose.

I recommend a series of large (70%) water changes every three days for a couple of weeks, meticulously clean any hard surfaces.


Make sure you are not over cleaning your filter.

Good luck my friend,

Biollante
 

Petex

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Hi Biolante,
Times ago I got a new Limnophilia where this algae was sticking on.
I cleaned it not good enough and since then, this algae "sitts & sticks" between those Limnophilias:


http://www.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/limnopjy1q4gnc.jpg
The good news: The algae was all the time never spreading or growing @other locations.
The bad news: I manually tried to remove the algae and since this time the algae is now "here & there" a little bit.
So yes- you are absolutly right: Breaking the algae is a good method of reproduction.

The infected plant looks quite healthy so you may be able to dip the plant(s) in a 20-ppm Potassium permanganate solution for 15 to 20 minutes and give a shot at saving the plant.
The shown Rotala is a fast pace plant and only temporary. I also moved the other Rotala fast pace stuff into my other tank where I keep 2 Amano shrimps.
Those Plants look very quickly algaefree like this:


http://img4.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/rotalan4dkl7ebrt.jpg
But at last there is no real sense by transfering or dipping each single plant - because all this will not remove any algae from the gravel or so.
Certainly I could make things easy and simply put 1 Amano shrimp in the tank and the "problem will be soon history" - but I really do not like putting animals in a tank just for fighting a single algae. There must be another way.

I forwarded the photographs to see if we can get identification on the algae.
Thank you very much for doing so.
Obvisously this may give us closer informations about the life cycle from this algae.:)

thx. peter
 
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Petex

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OK, I now nearly 2weeks are over since I started this topic and I really know very exactly the same like 2weeks ago.
Honestly, I am a little bit dissapointed as EI Subscriber: What benefits gives me a Membership if I need at last to browse Google or APC to find answers? :cool:

Certainly, removing all algaes manualy by hand --> may "somedays" clear each tank --> but this are not very exciting news "if you remove a thing that the thing is removed" :eek:range:
So I really need to ask again: Did we not have "more advanced" algae strategies in a "plant expert" forum?
 

Biollante

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Hi Peter,

For my part I am just someone on the forum, I make the assumption you can Google stuff yourself.
:nonchalance:

I am aware there are many who “Google” the same foolishness; give the same foolish advice so the next time one of the “Google experts” can give someone else the same foolish advice.

To the degree these things work it is usually at the expense of the long-term welfare of the system.

I also assume you are not a small child…

I am sorry to be the one that has to tell you there is no magic, things that work, generally work through persistence and hard work.

For the most part these “magic” remedies and “shortcuts” are recipes for disaster.
:cower:

Remove the algae, whatever it is, while correcting the situation that invited the algae in is as good as it gets, from me anyway, perhaps my failing.
:apathy:

Biollante
 

dutchy

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Thread algae is a pain in the butt to get rid of. Why? It's almost a plant, and really knows how to maintain itself in a healthy aquarium. Probably you inoculated the tank when you bought new plants, or you had a period where growth stagnated.

Getting rid of it is hard work, and manual removal, how simple it may sound, is part of that. Since the algae will grow on (almost) dead material, manual removal of old leaves will help. To reduce procreation of the algae, you could also start to do big waterchanges just when lights switch on, as the algae will break off at this moment, or even just before that moment when there's already some daylight in the tank and start to float through the tank until it gets stuck somewhere. Don"t forget to dose afterwards.

You could also temporarily add some juvenile SAE's, they will eat the algae from places you will never find.
Gilles' suggestion can also help somewhat but don't expect the algae to be gone in one go. Also less light will help, as with less light algae grows slower.
Also reconsider CO2 levels and don't assume it's ok.

A lot of little hammers act as one big one.

I've had thread algae on some occasions and each time Ï've beaten it. But it takes time. How long? It takes me around two months.
 

nipat

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Petex;79734 said:
OK, I now nearly 2weeks are over since I started this topic and I really know very exactly the same like 2weeks ago.
Honestly, I am a little bit dissapointed as EI Subscriber: What benefits gives me a Membership if I need at last to browse Google or APC to find answers? :cool:

Certainly, removing all algaes manualy by hand --> may "somedays" clear each tank --> but this are not very exciting news "if you remove a thing that the thing is removed" :eek:range:
So I really need to ask again: Did we not have "more advanced" algae strategies in a "plant expert" forum?

I know it's frustrating. But there's no "real" answer from other sites too.
Admit it, there is no exact/specific way to control algae because we still don't know
the exact reason why algae happens, why it's gone.

I think what Dutchy said is the best procedure we have now.

I think the main benefit for subscribing to this site is the Barrreport's newsletter.
Getting better/exclusive answer is not it.
 
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Petex

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Hi,
Probably you inoculated the tank when you bought new plants, or you had a period where growth stagnated.
The algae was coming with the postman and sticking on my new Limnophilia vietnam mini.
Look at the leaf, such tiny algae were sticking on it and this tiny stuff soon grows very pretty. It was my fault that I putted such a stem with algae weeks ago in the tank - because, after doing this - the nightmare started. :p

I've had thread algae on some occasions and each time Ï've beaten it
I had thread algaes 2years ago in another tank and getting ridd wasn´t any problem.
I had Clados 2years ago and getting ridd wasn´t any problem. (I used in past H202 for killing nasty Clados and doing so works)
Unfortunatly this thread algae withstands "normal" H202 dosing and I am affraid higher dosing will burn the plant.

The tank isn´t at last a problem, because the algae did not attach on my Cupheas, Lindernias, Ammania bonsais and other "hard leaf" plants.
- but it sticks like glue on the Limnophilia (has "soft leafs")

algae.jpg
 
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Petex

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I've had thread algae on some occasions and each time Ï've beaten it. But it takes time. How long? It takes me around two months.
OK, it finally took me now around 3weeks.
It looks like the algae is gone. I have not reduced any high light and not maked any waterchanges.
What I changed were:
# replacing Hang on filter
# increasing N up to 40mg/L
# decreasing P to 0.3-0.5mg/L
# increasing Co2 + Flow
# adding Montmorillonit
# adding extra Mg & Ca
# adding 5 RedFire shrimps

I don´t exactly know why the algae suddenly stopped growing after doing all this things.
The Red fire normally do not eat this algae, but I guess the sudden changes on the water conditions have weaken somehow the algae so that the shrimp have eaten all this stuff right now. :panda:
 
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