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what is wrong with my HC?

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by tafsound, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. tafsound

    tafsound Junior Poster

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    has anybody experienced this kind of problem before?
    i can't seem to grow HC to save my life...

    this is from a high light (hqi), press. co2, EI dosing, AS/PS, established tank.
    pretty much everything else in the tank is growing balls out. (including some threadalgae, unfortunately)
     
  2. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    It seems that every time any of us has a problem similar to yours, it turns out to be a CO2 problem - not enough of it. You have pressurized CO2, but how do you get it into the water, and do you make sure you have enogh CO2 in the water to get good pearling by midday, but no fish clustering at the surface "gasping" for air? The photo looks like that plant has lots of BBA on it, and that means not enough CO2, also.
     
  3. tafsound

    tafsound Junior Poster

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    really, that looks like BBA to you?
    hmm...i can't see close enough, but it doesn't look like it's bba to me, but it certainly could be. there is no "hairs/beard" to the blackness, looks more like it's decaying.

    i use a 12"x2" reactor with a glass diffuser inside. so i get a pretty good mist going on top of whatever the reactor does. i'm at 3-4bps on the milwaukee bubble counter and a 5dkh dropchecker is near yellow no matter where i stick it in the tank. however i've never saw any distress in my fish or shrimp, so i guess i could bring it up some more.

    could it be something other than BBA?
     
  4. tafsound

    tafsound Junior Poster

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    yes, i do see good pearling (even on the green parts of the HC) about 2-3h after lights on.
     
  5. dandestroy

    dandestroy Junior Poster

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    This look exactly like what I had

    http://www.barrreport.com/general-plant-topics/5894-what-going-my-hc-need-serious-help.html

    it's hard to see it on my pick, but when I look at yours I can tell you that it is exactly the same thing... like the leaves turning darker, kind of blue or dark green, and then decay like melting... then next thing you know it's spreading to other HC and everything gets affected after 2-3 weeks.

    While I still don't know what caused this on mine, mine where grown emerged which is not the case for you.

    My guess after what happen with me is that I should have treated it as it it was BBA. (remove water, and spray some dilute excel on the plants, also treat with EM tabs and put in the dark for 3 days)...

    why don't you give a shot with the one you pulled off see if that work?

    thanks
     
  6. tafsound

    tafsound Junior Poster

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    dandestroy,

    so you think it's some sort of bacteria (BGA), like a disease? (you mention using EM).

    i'm weary to try squirting excel onto it, since i've had HC straight melt like that before, while trying to treat BBA.
    guess it wouldn't hurt to try on the uprooted piece.

    has your HC recovered?

    i'm planning a 3 day BO for this tank anyways this weekend to deal with some threadalgae., so we'll see if that helps.
     
  7. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    When I remove something from the water to look at the BBA on it, it looks like that - it has no hairs, fuzz, or any other feature except black goo. But, when I put it back in the water, it takes on the normal appearance of BBA. That is what I based my guess on.

    I'm assuming you make your 5 dKH water starting with distilled water? If it is tap or tank water it doesn't work. And, the ultimate no-cost test for CO2 in the water is pearling and fish distress - in between them is the right max level for CO2.
     
  8. tafsound

    tafsound Junior Poster

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    VaughnH,

    i need some sort of magnifying glass, i really cannot see the actual consistency of the blackness. but even under water it doesn't look like BBA (i've had BBA several times unfortunately).
    yes, 5dkh made from distilled water.
    i get good pearling about 2-3h after lights on, i have never experienced any fish/shrimp distress, though. doesn't 5dkh at yellow mean pretty high co2 to whete shrimp should get uncomfortable?

    my tap water is sort of peculiar in that it has low/medium kh of 5dkh, but VERY high ph8.9+.
    the water district adds sodium hydroxide to raise ph. i have another thread going over at sfbaaps about that, doesn't sodium hydroxide bind co2? so maybe i have all that co2, but plants can't utilize it? could sodium hydroxide be the cause of the blackness?
    just throwing things out there...
     
  9. tafsound

    tafsound Junior Poster

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    for comparison/ possible indications:

    i have very good growth on blyxa, l.i.v. cuba, p. erectus, dhg, d. driandra, rotala indica,
    umbrosum, fissidens, there's more i cant think of, bacopa, potamogeton pectinatus,...

    i have issues with rotala vietnam, p stellata, HM.

    i have complete stunting/degeneration on HC, limnophila mini, arthraxon sp
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    P stellata is a good one for poor CO2, Hc certainly is, etc.

    Think about competing for CO2 and perhaps some plants might have a higher/lower CO2 compensation point than others............???

    So some will do well, others will not.
    HC is more CO2 sensitive than most think.
    But if you can keep that part stable, it's pretty weedy.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  11. dandestroy

    dandestroy Junior Poster

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    No mine did not recovered from this... so I restarted the whole tank with new soil and ordered new HC... planted them without the foam part this time... but 5 days later same issue started again...

    remember that mine are grown emerged at this point, which is supposed to make the whole process easier.

    So probably not algae after all... more likely soil and water. (soil is power sand with aqua soil amazonia, powder type... so supposed to be good according to other people growing HC... but maybe that the issue??)... level of water should not be much of an issue since these plant are also supposed to be grown submerged.

    so there is two things left... water quality and breathing.
    For the water I pass mine in a brita filter... but I recently found that my city adds chloramine to the water... so this might be the problem rigth there... maybe the carbon cartidge of the brita does not do the job enough to get rid of the chloramine... so I will add some prime to the water before I spray it on the soil and plants.

    As for breathing, my tank is closed shut completely by an acrylic pane... I will try leaving it fully open see if that helps at all (the hypothesis is that I'm killing the plant by lack of gas exchange).

    let me know if you find a solution to yours... but if CO2 is right for you, this only leave initial water quality (chloramine or pH?) or soil maybe? as a common theme between both of us.

    I'll check my pH, but check on your side if you have chloramine and let me know your type of soil.

    thanks
     
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