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What is the best!!!

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Brian20, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    What is the best, Pressurized CO2 24 hours or Pressurized CO2 with solenoid.

    I use Solenoid because I try 24 hour with 3 bps and fish was gasping for air 2-3 hours after light off.
     
  2. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Automation

    Hi Brian,

    I think shutting pressurized CO2 an hour or so prior to lights out, then on again an hour or so prior to lights coming back on.

    Solenoids make that easier.

    Biollante
     
  3. Gbark

    Gbark Guru Class Expert

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    I do as Biollante suggests.
    Here is the but:

    I think it is personnel preference, there is no right or wrong way. You will use more BPS when using a solinoid as there is no CO2 going in at night.
     
  4. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Conversely, you may end up using less CO2 with the solenoid since you don't use it all the time. You can lower the BPS that GBark mentions since you can always turn the CO2 on an hour or two before lights on to get the CO2 ramping up ahead of time but it will likely be higher than a slow 24x7 input. There are tradeoffs and options.

    -
    S
     
  5. argnom

    argnom Guru Class Expert

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    Personally, I seem to get better growth and less algae with the gas on 24/7. I have not done any rigorous testing tough.

    As for saving gas, I don't think it is much of an issue. CO2 is an inexpensive gas (if you know where to get it, I've seen many petshops make an incredible amount of profit out of CO2... really incredible... same goes for paintball-type places, those dudes sometimes charge over CAD5$ for a lb!). After finding a decent place for my CO2 needs, I realized that I spend more on frozen mosquito larvae to feed my fish than on gas. Weather it's on 24/7 or not.
     
  6. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi argnom,

    It is that c02 is not needed by the plants at night. W/o light there is no photosynthesis. Both plants and fish require 02 at night and this can cause a deficiency with c02 on 24/7 as both fish and plants will be producing c02.

    Better safe than sorry. Plants don't use c02 at night they produce it, and the fish sure don't need it.

    You may want to rethink the 24.7 c02 thing.......regardless of how inexpensive. fish safety is more important....

    Or add some surface agitation for when the lights go out..........or add that 24/7

    Just don't want you to gas your fish.....is easier to do than we care to think.
     
  7. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    I like solenoids and timers, but there are quite a few people that like things simple. No solenoid ... one less thing to fail. CO2 24/7 ... lower level, lower lighting ... less maintenance.
     
  8. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Plants produce a certain quantity of CO2 24x7 as a matter of light-independent cellular respiration (citric acid cycle); it's not just at night. Plants close their stomata at night and stop uptaking CO2, but if you work out the numbers they don't have a significant impact on free CO2 in the column.

    The trick with 24-7 is to know how fast you're gassing off, and just how far CO2 will build up. Response times are much slower this way.

    It's definitely harder on the fish either way, and harder to monitor so gassing is more likely. A solenoid will also pay for its self within a few CO2 fills.
     
  9. S&KGray

    S&KGray Guru Class Expert

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    +1

    Especially when you don't have many choices on where to get CO2 tanks refilled. I paid $3/lb swapping out a 20lb and $7/lb getting 5lb aluminum tanks filled. :(
     
  10. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    Well I have a solenoid (Milwaukee CO2 regulator), but now, with the refill the solenoid stop working, it not close enought the valve so CO2 is still escaping to the tank. I open the solenoid (valve)but I see all, ok. What can be the problem???
     
  11. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Neither I nor Amano adds CO2 at night, he said it's "Taboo". I agree with him.

    No need to add more respiration stress on fish.
    Saves gas refills, 60% longer life, and you can dose more CO2 during the day without fear of going too far vs 24/7.
    More wiggle room.

    When the CO2 is added, the plants also enhance and add O2, that is not the case at night.

    Not a hard issue.

    If you use a needle wheel pump, then plug that into the timer without a solenoid, then the CO2 bubbles out, turns on and disperses it only when the lights are on.

    Simple way around that.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  13. TheKillHaa

    TheKillHaa Prolific Poster

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    open it again and spray a small amount of WD-40 to the little piston (be careful with the rubber gasket, they like to disappear fallin of, lol ), Co2 is abrassive, so this should be regularly.

    regards.
     
  14. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    ok, i will try the cleaning and WD40. I saw the rubber, ir have some grease over all the valve. If i connect it, it sounds like usual, also in the night it close but not enought.
    Ex. 3bubblespersecond in the day, In the night the solenoid down it to 1 BPS (average) it suppose to down it to 0.
     
  15. Philosophos

    Philosophos Lifetime Charter Member
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    Grab something teflon based if you can. WD40 breaks down much faster.
     
  16. argnom

    argnom Guru Class Expert

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    Carefull with WD40, it's not a lubricant as most people think. It's a degreaser and a dessicant as far as I know.
     
  17. argnom

    argnom Guru Class Expert

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    Gerry and Tom,

    I do agree, before changing my filter for a more powerful one and adding a spay bar, I used a solenoid valve. After adding the new equipment, I noticed that it was easier to keep a stable CO2 level during the day by keeping the gas on 24/7. Perhaps I'm loosing more gas to the atmosphere because of the added surface agitation caused by the more powerful filter or that the water gets degassed more when being "forced" out of the small holes in the spray bar. I really don't know. Right before lights on, the fish seem as fine as they are right before lights out. No heavy breathing, all is ok.

    I used to pay a lot also until I found a nice place that take care of fire extinguishers, the kind of place that sell service contracts to large buildings. 14$CAD for 5lbs and they do the the hydrostatic test for about 11.00$. They won't necessarily do the test or fill our your cylinder while you wait, you may have to pick it up the next day since they prefer to fill out or test large quantities of cylinders at once for their convenience, but if you have 2 cylinders, it's all good.
     
  18. S&KGray

    S&KGray Guru Class Expert

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    I do need to call places that do fire extinguishers around here, maybe I'll get lucky.
     
  19. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    My response might of came out biased in a way that I didn't mean to do. I don't run CO2 at night. I like solenoids and timers.

    Over at some other forums, a good portion of the folks say that they don't use solenoids and run their CO2 24/7.
     
  20. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    If i cantuse WD 40 then what grease is correct? maybe vaseline? graphite grease? 3 in one?
     
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