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What is good surfact movement?

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by sherry, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. sherry

    sherry Guru Class Expert

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    errr.. make that SURFACE

    "Make sure you have good surface movement!! This gives you a lot more play in adding enough CO2 without gassing the fish." says Tom

    after today's gassing, I wonder.. is the ripple I get from tank outlet/powerheads considered good movement or should I run my nighttime bubbler (in back behind byxia background) full time?

    with Mist will the plants get what they need even if I churn off the dissolved co2?

    ps I just noticed you were asked this question last week, so I'll ask in a different way..

    is a bubbler in back silly overkill for surface movement during co2 hours?
     
    #1 sherry, Apr 29, 2007
  2. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

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    There are plent of answers to this question just do a search or use google!

    as for the bubbler I assume you are talking about an air stone ? If so It is my understanding that with Co2 injected systems you want as little bubble dissipation at the surface of the water as possible during your running the Co2 hours to prevent the Co2 gas from exiting the tank water.

    I have my Rena air pump turn on when the lights go out at 10pm and turn off at 11am. The air stones are stuffed inside the overlfow stand pipes which of course are located inside the two rear-corner overlfows.


    ;)
     
    #2 Pockets, Apr 29, 2007
  3. sherry

    sherry Guru Class Expert

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    pockets, there has been great discussion here about INCREASING surface movement to add o2 and then just pumping up the co2 a bit more to compensate. My question was more about how much is too much.

    I messed around a bit today and came up with an answer which seems to work. I took my old sweetwater stone (with very fine pores - it used to be my choice as a diffuser.. ) and ran my air pump thru that. Given the stone behind a stand of blyxa albertii , the surface rippling caused by the fine bubbles is there but not overly so..


    I will use my drop checker to guage how right or wrong I am.. I have the teardrop version and it is a little slow to react, so I'll know in a day or so for sure.

    ps. for the record and for future searches.. teardrop drop checkers seem to react beautifully quick when the system gets MORE co2.. but seem slower to show co2 going down.. -- even during a water change when they are in open air. I suspect it takes co2 longer than I ever realized to exit from water :)
     
    #3 sherry, Apr 29, 2007
  4. Pockets

    Pockets Prolific Poster

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    Well personally I am right now betting on using as much suface movement as possible yet without any surface breakage! ... i.e. no white water

    I think this is ideal because trying to get more O2 into the water by pushing the water so fast or at such an angle of entry that it continously breaks the surface is nothing in comparison to the level of O2 provided by the plants.

    Now I guess you really need to take into consideration the gear in which you are currently using to determine what level of surface movement you are willing to put up with.

    My setup on my 72x18x24 has two rear builtin corner overflows with each having large 3" wide locline return spouts just 1" under the surface. These return spouts are pointed slightly upward and each run by an eheim 2028. When placeing a floating bead anywhere on the surface of the water it enters one of the overlfows in about 30-60 seconds and there are no dead/stagnate spots either.

    Now, If I did not have this surface filtration setup I would probably have a few Hydor Koralia Water Circulation Pumps on the water line (hehehee) .


    bye,

    ;
     
    #4 Pockets, Apr 30, 2007
  5. sherry

    sherry Guru Class Expert

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    sounds like a nice setup. The toys in my house are plastic and cloth, and mostly belong to my 5 year old and my 2 year old -- my miracle boys :)

    the tanks are much simpler and the sweet water stone at $2 is doing a great job :)
     
    #5 sherry, Apr 30, 2007
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Pockets gave an excellent written example of the current one needs.

    Adding to that concerning CO2, if you place the CO2 diffuser/disc where the water current is going downward and then whipping the mist lengthwise through the tank............then you have a real winner.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
    #6 Tom Barr, Apr 30, 2007
  7. sherry

    sherry Guru Class Expert

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    my mist set up is working .. in a 20 inch cube it is easier to get it going than in six foot of tank.. but clearly the amt of surface movement my outflow and powerheads were supplying wasn't good enough to prevent the fish from suffering on Saturday -- and that was a day I got home after 5 hours instead of after 11.

    so, no joke, I need to know if my using a small air stone and just turning up the co2 some is something that is workable. Earlier posts made me think it is and today I am measuring a little more than 30ppm in the corner of the tank farthest from my diffuser.

    ps. pockets I wasn't making fun of your toys, I was poking fun at my lack of them. I'm a single mom. The best toys in my house really are the pre-school variety.
     
    #7 sherry, Apr 30, 2007
  8. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    The rate at which CO2 enters or exits the water is a function of the area of the water it is entering or escaping from and the volume of water the CO2 is entering or exiting. So, an ideal drop checker would have the surface area of the water in it being the same as the surface area of the tank water exposed to the air gap. In the original ADA style drop checker that is about what you get if you fill the bulb of the device half way, so the surface area of that bit of water is a maximum. If it is filled more than half way the loss of CO2 from that water will be very slow - low surface area and maximum water volume=maximum amount of CO2 molecules to escape. For the teardrop shaped one, I'm not sure what the best fill is.
     
    #8 VaughnH, May 1, 2007
  9. sherry

    sherry Guru Class Expert

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    It went down very quickly... and came back up over a day or so. It is impossible to "overfill" the teardrop because the stem only comes up to about 1/3 of the tear.. anything more would leak out. that leaves a relatively large water surface exposed to the air gap (the widest point of the tear)

    the opening to the tank is what is a little small.
     
    #9 sherry, May 1, 2007
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