Wet's EI modeling dosing calculator

Wet

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Nah, just late night changes to alpha in response to a question someone had about the variance in EI and the dosing recommendations stickied around the Internet. You're fast :)

(I agree with you Florin and adjusted this up to 6ppm K, the amount of K one would get from a 10pm KNO3 dose. Pushed to Alpha.)
 

Florin Ilia

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But but but... the EI target range is 10-20 ppm K[SUP]+[/SUP].

(sorry for the badgering, don't forget, newbie talking here!, sensing a learning opportunity)
 

rafael.compassi

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Jul 19, 2011
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Hi, Wet!

Great job so far!

I noticed something....

When you input something like:

My aquarium is 50L
DIY
KH2PO4
500ml
5ml
the estimative index

It result in a underdosed PO4 (0.5 ppm), below the range for the EI, but in the middle of PPS-pro range.

I think ou could up the dose of the PO4 a little (say, in the same range as the NO3).

(sorry if you already have noticed this!)

Cheers!

Rafael
 

Wet

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Hello Florin and rafael!

What you're both seeing is my standardization of EI back to plantbrain's suggested circa 2004-5 numbers. First let me apologize for my delay in response, and second let me preface this post by saying I agree: I'd prefer numbers closer to the stable version you see on http://calc.petalphile.com

What will most likely happen with standard EI (3x a week dosing with 50% water changes) and healthy plants is some accumulation of nutrients, which over time will approach the levels in the EI bs other methods chart. However, there's many ways to EI, including simply dosing the EI target after water change (ensuring you reach ever target) then dosing recommended levels from 2004-5 twice a week. Or any other number of customizations to standard EI.

The only motivation for changing these numbers is the amount of questions generated when there is any variance from 2004-5 documents. Now, this is an easy problem because even plantbrain adjusts his dosing over the years and according to his goals. But I'd prefer folks just get past nutrients and simply dose their tanks and move onto aquascaping.

Let's agree on some targets. How about 10-1.5-8-0.2 for N-P-K-Fe(as a proxy for traces)? Let's release Monday.

Sorry for typos. I typed this from my phone.
 

Florin Ilia

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Wet, thanks for the explanation. About agreeing targets though, I'm going to defer to more seasoned aquarists (including yourself) and just contribute whatever I can at my experience level :)
 

Wet

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Hello friends.

I'm pleased to announce the newest releases of http://calc.petalphile.com and http://ei.petalphile.com

Among the new features are:
A single page interface
Interactive, zoomable, fancy charts
Modelling projections for your first month of dosing by method (EI, PPS-Pro, etc)
Lots more compounds
Multiple water changes per week
Translations for the nutrient calculator in Dutch, German, Japanese, Brazillian Portuguese (in progress), Romanian, and Spanish

Here's a short video clicking around these two calculators
[video=youtube;9XwnKN_Mq2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XwnKN_Mq2M[/video]

Special thanks to Jorge Gonzalez, Florin Ilia, DanielSev, dutchy, Wasserpest, Tyler Merritt, and Carlos Olivera for their translations. You can find links to their profiles around the Internet at http://calc.petalphile.com/contribute_translation

The old, smaller, English-only version of Yet Another Nutrient Calculator is now known as http://tinycalc.petalphile.com

Thanks!
 
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Florin Ilia

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Wet, great job!

I just noticed that when calculating for EI low light, the 90% consumption goes into the negative values. You could probably argue "yeah, in a low light tank plant's won't uptake 90% of the ferts" - I'm just making sure you know&want this.

lowlight.png
 

Tom Barr

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Jan 23, 2005
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Wet;76660 said:
Hello Florin and rafael!

What you're both seeing is my standardization of EI back to plantbrain's suggested circa 2004-5 numbers. First let me apologize for my delay in response, and second let me preface this post by saying I agree: I'd prefer numbers closer to the stable version you see on http://calc.petalphile.com

What will most likely happen with standard EI (3x a week dosing with 50% water changes) and healthy plants is some accumulation of nutrients, which over time will approach the levels in the EI bs other methods chart. However, there's many ways to EI, including simply dosing the EI target after water change (ensuring you reach ever target) then dosing recommended levels from 2004-5 twice a week. Or any other number of customizations to standard EI.

The only motivation for changing these numbers is the amount of questions generated when there is any variance from 2004-5 documents. Now, this is an easy problem because even plantbrain adjusts his dosing over the years and according to his goals. But I'd prefer folks just get past nutrients and simply dose their tanks and move onto aquascaping.

Let's agree on some targets. How about 10-1.5-8-0.2 for N-P-K-Fe(as a proxy for traces)? Let's release Monday.

Sorry for typos. I typed this from my phone.

I looked back from 1996:
http://sfbaaps.org/articles/barr_02.html

These where targets the SFBAAPS group at the time had all agreed upon. The range provided a higher end and the lower leaner end. Erik Lueng had been doing rather lean N and P, but went nuts with K+/GH and traces were very light, till Claus came in 1998. Then folks started adding more, I'd stuck with an old recommendation of 0.5-0.7 ppm I heard from Karl Schoeder, maker of substrate gold laterite balls and liquid Fe. Much of this is NOT my doing, but more a response to other folk's general agreements. We all knew there's a wide range that works for various folks.

This is true today, but many neophytes seem to assume that one method must be the silver bullet, which is never the case.
And History repeats itself.
 

hbosman

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Oct 22, 2008
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Funny, Tinycalc works for me but the bigcalc doesn't. I'm running Windows 7 Enterprise if that makes a difference. The calc for concentration vs Time used to work but I get a blank screen now.
 
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barbarossa4122

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hbosman;76892 said:
Funny, Tinycalc works for me but the bigcalc doesn't. I'm running Windows 7 Enterprise if that makes a difference. The calc for concentration vs Time used to work but I get a blank screen now.

Same here.
 

Wet

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Hey Florin. I'll tweak the olow light/nce a week dosing with once a week water changes. You're right: I do want people to use these models to think about their dosing vs consumption, however I don't want it to be hard for folks, either, and in thinking about this I am certain there are things I could improve here.

Hi Tom. Yes, it's a hard problem. It's very interesting to read and see examples of how it is at least a 15 year old problem. But I think we can resolve it with a little more elbow grease/programming. For example, let me show you the first full day of the new calculator:

yanc_v2_day1.png


What's interesting here is the relatively low bounce rate (a "bounce" is a visitor who does not click on anything -- so per these GOOG Analytics we have 75-80% of folks digging deeper and ALL folks spending an average of >10 minutes figuring out what THEY want) -- the very high average time on the calculators, and the distribution of folks all over EU.

I really do think we're close to something here with a little more adjustment. And I think that adjustment is low hanging fruit we can bang out this weekend. What do you think of the 10-1.5-8-0.2 N-P-K-Fe/traces ballpark for most tanks? Let's solve tis problem!

barbarossa and hbosman,

First, let me tell you that you fine gardeners are among my targets for these tools and I apologize it does not work to its full capacity with Internet Explorer. This is because of nerdy (Javascript) issues. As workarounds, you can either use a modern version of Firefox, Chrome, or Safari for Windows on your machines (tested!), or use tinyCalc and/or you *should* be able to click on "simple chart" on the EI calculator, which will render the same static image/png chart from the old calculator.

But again, this is all too hard! At some point this weekend I will better troubleshoot Internet Exploer. If I cannot figure this issue out, I'll probably simply redirect IE users to the old versions of these calculators.

(Again, Chrome, Safari, or Firefox as alternative browsers should solve these issues for you. Please let me know if it doesn't as well as what browser you're using, and I'll do my best to fix it this weekend.)

Thanks!
 
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Wet

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Just an update: I still haven't gotten around to troubleshooting the issues above. Sorry. Did finally replant the tank with stems after moving 6 months ago, though :)
 

Hypanheaven

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Dec 29, 2011
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Are we able to request fertilizers to add on?

AquaGreen's Dino pee would be a great addition to the calculator.
I would certainly use it hehe
 

Wet

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Sure, but for liquid fertilizers we need the percent or ppm in solution for each important nutrient, which is unfortunately not on their site. Pinged Dave over at Aquagreen's forum on http://www.aquariumlife.com.au but if you guys happen to have the numbers in your literature or packaging or something, please pass them along to me
 

Hypanheaven

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Dec 29, 2011
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Sorry mate I do not, I can ring Dave and ask him but since tou have emailed him I'll wait for his response to you, if nothing then I'll give him a call, let me know, cheers
Brad