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Wet/dry detailed writeup ?

Discussion in 'Talk to Tom Barr' started by Jim Miller, Jul 20, 2011.

  1. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tom

    How about doing a serious writeup with pix and details of your wet dry implementations. The snippets here and there with brusque comments don't do it justice.

    Jim
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    There are some from older post in other forums.

    I guess I could do some. I offered some comparison based on CO2 and O2 readings recently.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    I was thinking construction.

    Jim
     
  4. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    I agree, Jim.

    It would be very helpful to see how it all goes together. I for one have not seen one in person let alone assembled one. If would be invaluable when I finally have a large tank and want to use a wet/dry.
     
  5. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Check out any Reef site or Marine site, they have endless mega filter threads, Reef Central etc.
     
  6. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    I suppose not much point in redoing whats already out there. Only difference is that you seal a portion of your to avoid degassing, correct?
     
  7. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tom

    The difference is in the sealing and doing so in a maintenance friendly fashion. I can't believe you would put duct tape on client's equipment that you install and maintain.

    Jim
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I have no reason to get inside the drip tray, in fact, after 3 years, never have.

    The filter is out of sight and under a cabinet, they cannot see it and it's not too hillbilly.
    Duct tape on your truck's tailight? That is hillbilly.

    There is no filter pad on the drip tray BTW, the dirt is collected in the sponge filter blocks and prefilters.
     
  9. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi Tom,

    If I may be so bold, I think folks are looking specifically for YOUR configuration, pictures, components, etc.

    At least for me I can compare with MY config and say, 'Well, if Tom can use pump X @ N gph' at least now I have a benchmark to compare against or at least a minimum to reach, if that makes any sense. Or, 'Tom uses a threaded union here rather than a T' or similar.

    You are an excellent gardener with great growth so folks may want a detailed schematic of the components, twists and turns, flow, etc of your system.

    We have seen bits and pieces over the years, but never a complete pic of the finished plumbing and setup.

    At least this is my interpretation of the original request (and others made over the years) :)
     
  10. JJP2

    JJP2 Lifetime Charter Member
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    The pictures I have seen of his wet/dry shows it coming in, likely over a drip tray. Under that is bio-bale and bioballs, which likely sit on egg crate which is slightly elevated. It then allows the water to flow through the sponges before returning to the tank.

    John
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    It really does not matter. I'm not Amano, I'm not trying to sell and build a Brand of filters or ferts, soils etc.
    He is and aesthetics, the products and marketing matter then.

    I honestly do not think this much about it, I guess I just add what I know works. I do not analyze unless there's an issue.
    I have some guild lines but they are pretty wide, anywhere from 5-10X the tank's volume for filtration on a sump, and about 20X for the current, this can change however depending on the goal and look and noise issues, prefilter size etc.

    I really do not think the filters are that critical, the gardening part is.
    I mostly think about filters that simply keep the O2/current up and clean the dirt out of the tank.
    Sumps are good to keep the other rubbish out of the tank and the surface clean, not water lines in the tank itself, evaporation lost etc.

    I would say my approach to filters is similar to Jeff Senske, I think we both would agree 100% on filtration.
    I might even be slightly more reductionist than he. His book, the inspired aquarium is not bad if you want more info on that.

    Still, every client has/wants something different. So I rarely get to do a filter system from the gound up, I tend to have to make do and fix what I the client has and make it work better.
    I'm more a "finish guy" who fixes the leftover issues or where other's have failed. I have made sumps and prefilter filters in the past, but I do not really care to do that as a business.
    Fabrication is not where the $ is or where I'd like to go, even if I have experience with Acrylic and ABS, Lexan etc.
     
  12. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tom

    I didn't understand this post. Could you explain your guidelines a bit more. 5-10x filtration on a sump? 20x for current?

    Do you depend on sump return flow for all the tank flow or do you augment with additional props in the tank?

    Could you give an example of what you might use on 100g tank?

    Thanks

    Jim
     
    #12 Jim Miller, Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2011
  13. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Filter runs say 500-1000 Gallon/hr for a 100 gal tank, and has about 2000 GPH total water movement, eg supplemental flow, so say 1000GPH from the filter and another 1000 from powerhead wavemakers etc.
    This is hardly set in stone however.

    Yes

    Did it above
     
  14. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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  15. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tom

    I've been digging through your other posts on w/d. On your 60 cube it appears you have your w/d media directly below your drip tray with no medium to spread the water. Is that correct?

    Where are the prefilters located that you describe? Or do you just let the detritus collect in the w/d material and get consumed by the bacteria?

    Thanks

    Jim
     
  16. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    the prefilters are in the overflow hang on unit, search "CPR prefilter hang on".
    There is a small sponge where all the shrimp generally end up(to be culled) and catches most of the larger muck.

    I clean these weekly etc.

    Takes a second.

    The drip plate has not filter pad, often the wet/drys come with these, but I tape up the top edge where you can pull out these drip trays to remove the filter pads etc, so I do not bother, they clog and back the water up too fast anyway.

    I put a nice thick foam sponge block in the sump after the wet/dry tower. this is the main bio/filtration, generally a 20ppi and 30ppi.
    I use the foam from swisstropicals and cut the foam to suit using a bread serrated knife, these cut through foam like they do through bread.

    Next up is the return pump.

    I add the heater and stuff it up the tower generally and out of the way.
    The needle wheels go right next to the intake of the return pump.
    The activated Carbon/purigen etc, goes before the sponge filters if I use it.

    A larger than needed over flow and a smaller return pump are wise, I'd rather run the return pump wide open without any ball valve or gate valve reducing the flow(waste energy).
    The larger over flow will minimize any gurgling noise a bit more than an undersized prefilter.

    Built in prefilters and DIY are another article etc..........beananimal's (search google) has some of the best types, but they are DIY and add stuff to the tank, if you are clever, having a built in overflow outside the rectangluar box, would be ideal.

    Marine reef site shave many different set ups for sumps/wet/drys/plumbing schemes from Hades.
    Worth a look.
     
  17. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    Tom

    The RC BeanAnimal thread is a monster. I'm now on page 17 of 40. I can see how it works and appreciate that it would be quiet but it is quite a bit of "stuff."

    I'm still interesting in reading on the wet/dry concept if just for education. My current plumbing/filtering is really working nicely now and is very quiet.

    One more question: I thought one purpose of the filter pad on the drip tray was to help distribute water. How do you accomplish that?

    Thanks

    Jim

    ps. holy crap! it's a split thread with an additional 145 pages!!
     
    #17 Jim Miller, Jul 25, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2011
  18. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Drip plate does fine on it's own, no need to distribute water.
     
  19. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    Thanks again!

    Still plodding through BeanAnimal thread although it's now getting repetitive.

    Jim
     
  20. Jim Miller

    Jim Miller Lifetime Charter Member
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    The Reef Central BeanAnimal thread is interesting and his design is very well done. However I think esthetically it would best appeal in its current form to a much larger tank than the 75g he show it for. It looks to be quite bullet proof however and that is especially desireable if one has expensive (reef) critters or a large tank which could do some serious flood damage.

    His reliance on 1.5" PVC for at least one of the drains (quiet laminar one with airline) is understandable technically but starts to really make the design a bit of a monster. Likewise the " coast-to-coast" interior skimmer box makes for quite an intrusion. However given the target design point (salt) it is again understandable as a means of skimming protein with maximum efficiency. I doubt that would be necessary in a planted tank to the same degree.

    So if I was thinking of a nice big tank like GerryD (180-220) it might be a very nice approach. For my 90g I still like the clean interior and exterior of the bottom drilled approach...even if it costing me a fortune!

    Jim
     

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