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Vinegar as chelating agent for fertilizer

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by keitarosan, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. keitarosan

    keitarosan Junior Poster

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    has anyone tried this before?? i read this in one forum that says he has used vinegar as a chelating agent for fertilizer for plants to get better absorption. works great as he claimed. plants are not leggy even with low lights and are greener than before.

    any scientific analysis on this one? i have never heard or read of anything like this before until now so i'm asking the gurus. this is a job for tom i guess. :)
     
  2. Anti-Pjerrot

    Anti-Pjerrot Prolific Poster

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    Acetic acid arent a chelator and is unable to form complexed stuctures with simple metals like iron or other micronutrients. A chelator needs the have the ability to hold the metal irons in a complexed structure.

    It might be good as for keeping the micromix low in pH, witch will keep the metal as irons. But nothing more.

    Correct me if im wrong.
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Vinegar is simply an acid, it can keep metals in solutions, however, once you add it to a massive volume of tank water at a much higher pH, you may as well add the trace mix to tap water.

    Chelators maintain the metals in solution at various pH ranges and they are weak enough for the plants to break off and nab the metals.

    They have various strengths and pH optima.
    Some are very weak, and do not last long, others are much more resistent and last a very long time time relatively speaking.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  4. Generals

    Generals Prolific Poster

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    hi tom,
    so you are saying that adding vinegar would be beneficial to the plants?
    in my part of the world, trace is not available... would this be a good substitute?

    by the way, does vinegar not adversely affect water chemistry for the fishes as well?

    @keitarosan
    hi!
     
  5. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Vinegar belongs in the pickles, not in the aquarium. Vinegar is acetic acid, with various contaminants. Plants have no use for acetic acid, and most fish prefer water without unnecessary dissolved solids in it.
     
  6. keitarosan

    keitarosan Junior Poster

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    hey generals. i saw this vinegar thread in palhs. thought of asking the gurus here and let our guys in palhs know.
     
  7. Generals

    Generals Prolific Poster

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    hi, can you expound more on what your original question is? i kinda don't get it...you are asking if dosing vinegar will benefit the plants?
     
  8. keitarosan

    keitarosan Junior Poster

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    ok, one of palhs member - a local philippine forum claimed that he's using vinegar as a chelating agent for fertilization. he said that instead of using tap water or tank water to dissolve the dry ferts. he's using vinegar. he also claims that even with low light, his high lighting requirement plants doesn't look leggy and are very healthy. he then concluded (or thought) that vinegar is a good chelating agent.
     
  9. Generals

    Generals Prolific Poster

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    oh ok.. so chelating agent means it is used to dissolve the fertz?
     
  10. detlef

    detlef Subscriber

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    I tried something similar recently. I wanted to play smart and started to use acetic acid in order to improve dissolution of dry minerals which I use for reconstituting RO/DI water. I sprinkled 4mls of acid over the minerals added 1L of water stirred for a while and then poured the whole lot in the tank.
    This way I intended to avoid milky tank water right after water changes (the clouding of course usually disappeares after about 2 or 3 hrs on its own). It worked like a charm. Clear tank water immediately after water changes. And no negative responses from fish and fauna so far (only 2 weeks into the experiment).

    What I did not consider though was the impact on the lava rocks I used for the scape. Phosphates began to raise and are now through the roof being dissolved by the acid. The acid itself does not seem to impact flora and fauna so far but the side effects can easily get out of control. What else might go into solution from the rock/acid combo is beyond my imagination. It should be a lot of different minerals I suspect.

    At least for rock scapes I would therefore not recommend to introduce any acid to aquariums other than carbonic acid from CO2 injection.

    Best regards,
    Detlef
     
  11. detlef

    detlef Subscriber

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    Well, after giving the issue some more thoughts I can see ADA AS also being responsible for the high P level. Either the lava rocks are constantly leaching some P or the formerly bound P is dissolving back from the substate into the water column due to the acetic acid additions.

    I'll have to test that.

    Nevertheless, I do not recommend adding stronger acids than carbonic acid to tank water even in small amounts.

    Regards,
    Detlef
     
  12. Generals

    Generals Prolific Poster

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    @detlef
    just a side track question, would placing activated carbon in the filter be able to substitute or supplement the carbon needed by plants other than co2 injection?
     
  13. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Sorry, but no, otherwise we wouldn't bother with c02 injection or Excel or other methods......

    This filter carbon is for adsorption of chemicals and impurities and water treatment in general. Remove medication, discoloration, etc.
     
  14. Generals

    Generals Prolific Poster

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    oh.. hehehe i thought so but just wanted to make sure=)
    thanks gerryd!
     
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