Victor VTS 450D with Nupro SS-4BG...Whats next? (this is a major budget build)

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
I have been looking for a Co2 system for my 20 Long for a while now.

Well Kids I took a risk on an auction a few days ago. I found a Victor 450D that had a Nupro valve already attached. It came from a National Laboratory.
2sbodue.jpg


I have been reading all the sticky notes on Co2 regs, valves, and solenoids for a while now, trying to find nuggets of info on decent hardware. I can't say that I found much in the way of affordable equipment in those threads, but it did help me know what I should be looking for. I have to thank a few of the members who's name kept popping up. (in no particular order) Matt.F, Maknwar, Left C, oldpunk, and I am sure I am forgetting some others. The info they posted has been invaluable to me so far in learning about all this. Thanks!
Now with all the groveling out of the way. :D

I have begun my quest of my very first build. Like the title, whats next?

Here is where I am right now.
I was not sure if the valve that was connected was going to be suitable. I bought a brand new Hoke [HASHTAG]#2331F2B[/HASHTAG], after receiving the regulator today and getting a chance to look up the valve it came with, I think I no longer need the Hoke. Provided that the Nupro is still good. Also the Victor came with a few swaglok fittings and a tube connecting the valve and the regulator. I have bought the CGA 320 from regulatortorchrepair.com to replace the CGA 580 it came with. The tube was slightly bent when I opened the box. The right gauge needs fixed or replaced. The body of it has been tweaked/ bent and the dial face is knocked/ bent inside of the casing.
hv5oxz.jpg

b9f01y.jpg

What is the extra part sticking out of the regulator on the bottom? it says: relief do not alter 400.

I know that I need a solenoid, check valve, and probably all the pieces to connect them all.
Am I forgetting anything?

Price is always a concern. So I was hoping that maybe someone has spare or old parts I could buy to finish this build. Even if it is just a link to a good price, it would be appreciated.

I know the importance of the check valve, So I would like to get a swaglok if possible.
I also want reliability from the solenoid, I was thinking the Burkert 6011 [HASHTAG]#463938[/HASHTAG] recommended in the sticky.
I plan on contacting Reg and torch for replacement gauges.

I feel like I am over looking something though...

Either way I have a month or so to finish this build, during the dry start method outlined by Tom in a thread I read.

Thanks for reading and for the help!

Samual
 

jerrybforl

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Mar 7, 2010
1,034
2
38
40
Miami Beach, FL.
Just follow all the threads. I have one on here as well for that exact reg. It's a good reg, but I had to have the diaphragm replaced about a year after I bought it.

It was faulty by Victor, but someone replaced the diaphragm with the wrong one. Had it replaced works perfect now going on three years.

Stick with the Swaglok. Apart from the check valve, all parts are fairly cheap. You can save money on a meter valve. They can be very expensive. I've only used the ideal valves, but would be open to using a cheaper part.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
 

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
Stage two of the build

jerrybforl,

I am glad to hear a vote of confidence in the reg I selected.

I took all the parts off the regulator tonight, minus the relief valve( Not sure what to do with it.), and got a chance to inspect all the fittings. Everything looked alright as far as I could tell.Not sure if I should try and reuse or just replace.

I still need help with the fittings grocery list. I went to swagelok's site and put together one...but I would like someone to look it over to make sure I am not forgetting anything. I really would appreciate it if someone has some spares (I could buy) on a few items to help keep cost down. solenoid and check valve to be specific.

34fmudw.png


Also, do you think I should buy a rebuild kit or pay to have it rebuilt locally?
I don't want to ship it.
 

Matt F.

Lifetime Charter Member
Lifetime Member
May 30, 2009
2,319
4
38
California
The build looks great so far. For cheap NPT parts, you can always go to your local Ace Hardware. Their parts aren't pretty, but they are cheap and they work. My guess is you can find all of them for around $20. Swagelok components are more expensive across the board. Plus you'll be paying $15+ on shipping. If you're in California, you'll be paying 9.5% sales tax, too! That said, you need a solenoid, unless you want to manually open and close the valve at night--this would require resetting the regulator daily. Don't skimp on this part unless you want to deal with headaches down the road. A Burkert type 6011 (aquariumplants.com) comes with a three prong outlet plug and has an impeccable track record for dependability over the years. I've been running the same Burkert for years on my tank. Works as well as it did on day 1. That said, I'd get rid of all the tube fittings that are on your post body and replace them with standard NPT pipe fittings. This will make things a lot easier, and the build will look cleaner.

Stay away from units with VCR, tube, and other type of exotic fittings, unless you've already done the research and know which parts are needed prior to buying them. Just more headaches.

So now that you have your metering valve (I hope that one is accurate for low-flow applications, the Swagelok M series is not), you can probably finish the build for under $80. A majority of the price will be the Burkert solenoid.

For a check valve, you can buy an ADA check valve $6, and that will be enough to prevent back-siphoning into your unit. I've run the same plastic ADA check valve for years, and it's still working as intended. Check the DIY sticky for a link (post#1). You don't need one hard plumbed onto you post body. I do that with my builds (as Left C does) for an extra layer of protection. Not needed.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
Thanks Jerrybforl and Matt F., I took full advantage of the advice you gave me.

I took the CGA 580 off, Also the dials and the other fittings. I will be checking out Ace or Lowe's for the replacement NPT parts soon. I just need help putting together the layout of the components.


I have to ask, do you think I should rebuild the regulator itself?
 

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
OK...so I wonder if this will post.

I still need new gauges. I have the replacement nut and stem. debating buying a rebuild kit and or having it rebuilt.

ok let see if this works.
 

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
Wow!!! after a month of my account being frozen (read unable to reply or anything) I can finally post in real time.

Quick update: I have disassemble the Regulator. I have not ordered new dials, I am thinking about trying the old ones first. I have yet to purchase the rebuild kit, I have been thinking about having it rebuilt for me so I know it is right the first time. I also decided to wait on buying fittings until I get the other stuff worked out.
 

gsjmia

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Jan 10, 2010
327
19
18
Boca Raton, FL
I rebuilt a Victor, it took an hour or so to get it all cleaned out and to get all the old diaphram bits off the seat without scratching.
file3.jpg


Its not hard if you have basic skills and normal tools (box end wrenches, sockets, breaker bar, etc). An air compressor will help clean out the orfices.

The best place to dis-assemble and re-assemble/tighten is attached to CGA and the tank-with the tank's pressure valve closed.

If I had it to do over again I would send out.

The basic rebuild kit is cheap, but when I added in all the extras, like a new pressure relief valve (bad out of the box, wound up using old one) and new gauges (one was bad), it wound up costing more than if I had sent it out.

FYI, I am using the rebuild regulator and it works fine.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
gsjmia;126035 said:
I rebuilt a Victor, it took an hour or so to get it all cleaned out and to get all the old diaphram bits off the seat without scratching.
file3.jpg


Its not hard if you have basic skills and normal tools (box end wrenches, sockets, breaker bar, etc). An air compressor will help clean out the orfices.

The best place to dis-assemble and re-assemble/tighten is attached to CGA and the tank-with the tank's pressure valve closed.

If I had it to do over again I would send out.

The basic rebuild kit is cheap, but when I added in all the extras, like a new pressure relief valve (bad out of the box, wound up using old one) and new gauges (one was bad), it wound up costing more than if I had sent it out.

FYI, I am using the rebuild regulator and it works fine.

WOW! good to know, I appreciate the tip. I hope the kit I ordered is decent...
I still need to order one new gauge, do they come in sets?

I also still need to find someone's build list for adapters/ fittings to follow so I don't forget something and have a way to know I order correctly.
 

gsjmia

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Jan 10, 2010
327
19
18
Boca Raton, FL
You buy gauges separate, according to the pressure range you need. If your seat is covered with stuck on rubber use a wire wheel on the dremel, don't use sand paper. It's brass and will scratch easy. If you scratch any brass fitting it could leak gas.
 

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
thanks mathman for the pics, that will help me with the layout.

Gsjmia, I got an new high side pressure gauge after seeing your post. Thanks for the tip on cleaning it up too.

small update. I bought the rebuild kit, swagelok check valve, HP gauge, Co2 tank all last night. I still need Co2 resistant tubing and to decide on bubble counter or tube.
 

gsjmia

Lifetime Members
Lifetime Member
Jan 10, 2010
327
19
18
Boca Raton, FL
I took pictures every step of the way when I rebuilt my Victor and a draft in Word of what I planned to post here, but I can't get the website to display the pictures, PM me if you want me to send you a copy.

It's pretty easy.
 

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
So the 10# tank arrived as well as the rebuild kit. I have the tank being checked and filled, I get it back tomorrow. $15 to fill it from a fire extinguisher, safety, security place called AEC.

I can't break the main body apart as of yet though.
 

Fish_bone

Prolific Poster
Dec 14, 2012
39
0
6
37
Springfield, Illinois
Ok...so the other side would not budge. I ended up marring the finish some trying to get it open. I decided to put it back together and pressure check it. 48 hours later the low side has dropped maybe a millimeter. So there is a small leak, I am going to check my connections again. But the lesson learned is that I should have waited until I had the tank and just checked it from the get go. Patients.

npqhix.jpg

2nbygwn.jpg

2eba6w4.jpg



I am missing a solenoid right now. but all the other fittings and the new gauge seem to be just fine. I do need to figure out one small issue though. how to attach the Co2 tubing. in the order I have the fittings, the check valve is the last piece. what do I need to finish?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20140524_165313824.jpg
    157 bytes · Views: 166
Last edited by a moderator: