UV recommendation

[Ekrindul]

Unfortunately, searching the forum for UV is not possible right now. So, I'm looking for a UV sterlizier for a 55 gallon tank and my primary concern is bacteria (fish TB). It will be attached to either an Eheim Ecco 2234 or a 2236. My inline heater is connected to the 2236 currently, but I can always switch it to the 2234 if it makes more sense to have the UV on the higher flow filter. Though I don't really think the flow difference is all that great between the two filters.

Any have a recommedation for a UV that would fit my needs?

 

[dutchy]

To ensure complete sterilization of bacteria, you have to use a very low flow level of around 20 to 25 gph per Watt. If you use more, it won't work. It will still be effective against algae spores, but not against bacteria.
This way you can calculate the needed Wattage of the UV by knowing the pumps capacity in GPH (at the end of the return) Then you divide by 20 to 25.
regards,
dutchy

 

[barbarossa4122]

I am using the 9w "green killing machine" which is listed at 200L/hour for my 55g and 30g tanks. I am not sure but, I think the flow is too low. The manufacturer states that is good for tanks up to 53 US gallons. They are on a timer and are on when lights are off.

 

[Ekrindul]

Dutchy, I assume you mean parasites at the end there (edit: Nevermind, I misread your statement. I see what you mean now). I'm not worried about the algae spores. I haven't had any issues there. I'm not really sure that the losses I've had recently were due to TB, but I'm really at a loss as to what it was. I had 3 honey gourami all die in the same manner a few days apart. Each one would spend alot of time on the bottom, not eating. After a day of this, their swimming became erratic such that they couldn't swim correctly for more than a few minutes then they would ... collapse for lack of a better word, and seem to have died, though I could see they were still breathing. Half an hour later they would appear to be fine. And that cycle would repeat for a day or two until they finally died.

Yesterday, I lost one of my sunset gourami to the same symptoms. One of my sunsets is much fatter than a gourami should be, though he is otherwise healthy that I can tell. I've also had problems with some of my albino cory where they would turn even paler than usual and not eat for up to a week. They all managed to recover from it however.

So, not sure that any of it is related. Or if it's related to harmful bacteria. I don't suspect parasites as I see no evidence of it.

 

[dutchy]

*As a Sterilizer; Generally for bacterial control (& many virus) a flow rate of 20-25 gph per watt (75-95 liters per hour, per watt).

*As a Clarifier; For algae control, 40 gph per watt (sometimes as high as 50 gph) is effective to maintain effective exposure for effective UVC sterilization/radiation (depending on model UV’s design).

*As a Sterilizer; For single cell parasite control (such as Cryptocaryon) as well as a few “stubborn” viruses, a flow under 10 gph (or even less) is necessary. This is often not 100% for all parasites of this type, so a UV Sterilizer should not be relied on as the sole preventative for these parasites!

regards,
dutchy.

 

[barbarossa4122]

*As a Sterilizer; Generally for bacterial control (& many virus) a flow rate of 20-25 gph per watt (75-95 liters per hour, per watt).

*As a Clarifier; For algae control, 40 gph per watt (sometimes as high as 50 gph) is effective to maintain effective exposure for effective UVC sterilization/radiation (depending on model UV’s design).

*As a Sterilizer; For single cell parasite control (such as Cryptocaryon) as well as a few “stubborn” viruses, a flow under 10 gph (or even less) is necessary. This is often not 100% for all parasites of this type, so a UV Sterilizer should not be relied on as the sole preventative for these parasites!

regards,
dutchy.

Hi Dutchy,

Are my sterilizers useless since the flow is only about 50 gph ?
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2750628&cp=2708660.4397136.4397199

 

[dutchy]

A 50 GPH pump with a 9 Watt UV will give you 5,5 GPH per Watt. With a turnover of 1x per hour it's perfect. I also use a 9 Watt UV with a 200 GPH pump on my 180 gallon. Works perfect since I once cleared up green water with it.

regards,
dutchy

 

[barbarossa4122]

A 50 GPH pump with a 9 Watt UV will give you 5,5 GPH per Watt. With a turnover of 1x per hour it's perfect. I also use a 9 Watt UV with a 200 GPH pump on my 180 gallon. Works perfect since I once cleared up green water with it.

regards,
dutchy

Thanks a lot Dutchy

 

[Ekrindul]

I am using the 9w "green killing machine" which is listed at 200L/hour for my 55g and 30g tanks. I am not sure but, I think the flow is too low. The manufacturer states that is good for tanks up to 53 US gallons. They are on a timer and are on when lights are off.

I wanted an in-line UV, but I cannot find one that has a low enough GPH to wattage ratio for my tank size. How hard is the green killing machine to hide in the tank? Have any pics of it in your tank you could share?

 

[pepetj]

Unfortunately UV sterilization may be useless with TB. TB strains are considered mycobacteria and these type of organisms at least a significant number somehow repair whatever damage they get when exposed to UV.

For Mycobacteria control, radical measures are usually implemented, like sacrificing every fish exposed to TB, dismantling the whole system and sterilize it following some instructions I don't know.

Maybe a biologyst can clarify this for us.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

 

[barbarossa4122]

I wanted an in-line UV, but I cannot find one that has a low enough GPH to wattage ratio for my tank size. How hard is the green killing machine to hide in the tank? Have any pics of it in your tank you could share?

Hi Ekrindul,

They are bulky and a little hard to hide. I hid mine as best I could behind some Amazon Swords.

 

[Biollante]

Mycobacterium spp.

Hi Eckrindul,

Sorry to hear of your losses.

If it is fish TB, Mycobacterium spp., probably Mycobacterium marinum, you need to be aware this is transferable to humans. All it requires is a small cut to infect you; gloves are a very good idea. Should you develop any lesions on your hands or arms in the next five years make sure to let your Doctor know you are a fish keeper and you have reason to believe you were exposed to Mycobacterium marinum. Medical folks do not see this very often. Usually easily treated most of the time, it can be nasty.

The fish are not so fortunate, the only treatment I have heard of being at all successful is Kanamycin and pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6) for 30 days.

As Pepetj said, destroying (euthanizing) the infected fish then tearing down, sterilizing, and sanitizing everything is about the only sure method of eradicating Mycobacterium spp. http://www.mdsg.umd.edu/programs/extension/aquaculture/finfish/factsheets/FF9/index.php

UV-sterilization will not cure or rid your tank of Mycobacterium marinum. UV-sterilizers such as the Gamma UV Sterilizer, http://www.marinedepot.com/uv_ultraviolet_sterilizers_ozonizers_current-usa_gamma-ap.html, will reduce or prevent Mycobacterium spp. from entering the tank from a separate source, should you have multiple tanks. As Dutchy pointed out proper sizing and dwell time are key.

Labyrinth fish Gouramis, Betta, Paridise fish and so forth are the most susceptible, though all fish can be infected. Poor water conditions and contaminated food are the likely culprits.

Biollante

 

[sanj]

Unfortunately UV sterilization may be useless with TB. TB strains are considered mycobacteria and these type of organisms at least a significant number somehow repair whatever damage they get when exposed to UV.

For Mycobacteria control, radical measures are usually implemented, like sacrificing every fish exposed to TB, dismantling the whole system and sterilize it following some instructions I don't know.

Maybe a biologyst can clarify this for us.

Pepetj
Santo Domingo

I dont know where you got this from, but it doesnt ring true. If exposed long enough the mycobacteria would be destroyed. If UV can destroy much larger pathogens then I really cant see how it would not do so for this bacterium. The bigger factor is that mycobactieria is sessile and will be found on surfaces, but whatever is in the water column will be irrepairably damage by UV at the right exposure. A UV unit will not remove all myco from a system but it may provide a level of control by damaging what is in the water column.

Given that myco is found from many sources including tap water, it does not make sense to me to destroy all fish since it is unlikely it would ever entirely be removed. I would only destroy badly infected fish. Other carriers will surpress it as long as they are healthy.

 

[Ekrindul]

Hi Eckrindul,

Sorry to hear of your losses.

If it is fish TB, Mycobacterium spp., probably Mycobacterium marinum, you need to be aware this is transferable to humans. All it requires is a small cut to infect you; gloves are a very good idea. Should you develop any lesions on your hands or arms in the next five years make sure to let your Doctor know you are a fish keeper and you have reason to believe you were exposed to Mycobacterium marinum. Medical folks do not see this very often. Usually easily treated most of the time, it can be nasty.

The fish are not so fortunate, the only treatment I have heard of being at all successful is Kanamycin and pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6) for 30 days.

As Pepetj said, destroying (euthanizing) the infected fish then tearing down, sterilizing, and sanitizing everything is about the only sure method of eradicating Mycobacterium spp. http://www.mdsg.umd.edu/programs/extension/aquaculture/finfish/factsheets/FF9/index.php

UV-sterilization will not cure or rid your tank of Mycobacterium marinum. UV-sterilizers such as the Gamma UV Sterilizer, http://www.marinedepot.com/uv_ultraviolet_sterilizers_ozonizers_current-usa_gamma-ap.html, will reduce or prevent Mycobacterium spp. from entering the tank from a separate source, should you have multiple tanks. As Dutchy pointed out proper sizing and dwell time are key.

Labyrinth fish Gouramis, Betta, Paridise fish and so forth are the most susceptible, though all fish can be infected. Poor water conditions and contaminated food are the likely culprits.

Biollante

I meant to reply back, but forgot. It looks like the culprit was iridovirus, actually. My pearls have never shown any trace of the disease, which makes sense as larger gourami seem to be immune to it. None of my other fish have shown any signs of illness, while all my dwarf gouramis eventually died of it. Seems reasonable to assume iridovirus was the disease. Much to my sadness, I've decided to just add dwarf gourami to my list of fish I no longer keep.

 

[feh]

I run a 36 watt on a filter rated at a max of 277 gph. I only run it at lights off when I decide to plug it in and use it. For a while I was using it nightly since I didn't QT anything. Still a high risk doing that but I didn't have a QT set up at the time.

 

[Htomassini]

I am using a deep blue in tank sterilizer and clarifier 18w for my 210 and it has even cleared up my water a bit too. they have a built in pump so they run at the proper flow and they can be mounter hor or vertically. let me know if interested and ill post the link

 

[Biollante]

Megalocytivirus

I meant to reply back, but forgot. It looks like the culprit was iridovirus, actually. My pearls have never shown any trace of the disease, which makes sense as larger gourami seem to be immune to it. None of my other fish have shown any signs of illness, while all my dwarf gouramis eventually died of it. Seems reasonable to assume iridovirus was the disease. Much to my sadness, I've decided to just add dwarf gourami to my list of fish I no longer keep.

Hi Eckrindul,

I suspect that we actually see iridoviruses more often than we realize and put them off to bacterial or water quality/toxin issues.
Megalocytivirus Infections in Fish, with Emphasis on Ornamental Species http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FA/FA18200.pdf.
Iridovirus in Gouramis, http://www.aces.edu/dept/fisheries/education/ras/publications/Update/Iridovirus in gouramis.pdf

I hate to see you give up on dwarf gouramis due to one bad experience. :gw

Disease is an unfortunate reality in all creatures; we can only do our best through good practices to protect our critters (and ourselves for that matter). It is disheartening and even painful, but we learn what we can and go forward.

Good luck,
Biollante

 

[Biollante]

Can You Say Epizootiology

I dont know where you got this from, but it doesnt ring true. If exposed long enough the mycobacteria would be destroyed. If UV can destroy much larger pathogens then I really cant see how it would not do so for this bacterium. The bigger factor is that mycobactieria is sessile and will be found on surfaces, but whatever is in the water column will be irrepairably damage by UV at the right exposure. A UV unit will not remove all myco from a system but it may provide a level of control by damaging what is in the water column.

Given that myco is found from many sources including tap water, it does not make sense to me to destroy all fish since it is unlikely it would ever entirely be removed. I would only destroy badly infected fish. Other carriers will surpress it as long as they are healthy.

Hi Sanj,

I have to go with Pepetj.

Destroying all fish exposed to Mycobacterium spp., tearing down and sterilize/sanitize everything is drastic; it is the only sure way to eradicate fish TB.

• Personally I would euthanize any fish identified with symptoms and quarantine the rest.

UV-sterilization along with other good practices are effective in controlling the spread of Mycobacterium spp. and Iridoviridae for that matter, from tank to tank.

The dynamics of the transmission of these pathogens do not lend themselves to eradication via UV-Sterilization or other treatments.

Biollante

 

[sanj]

Hi Bioallante,

the thing about breaking down and sterilizing a tank is that while it might be a way of eradicating myco at that point in time, it is drastic and impractical in large tanks (one of mine is 1600litres). In the end though Myco is found in many sources including tap water and can easily be re-introduced. That is why I tend to think measures to lower its prevalance and keep fish healthy is the most realistic practical method. Fish that are suffering badly, should be euthenised, but many fish are actually carriers and are just keeping it at bay because they have a healthy immune system.

Mass bred fish like fancy guppies and praecox rainbows are particularly susceptible because their immune systems are compromised due to inbreeding.