Trouble with Apistos

[dutchy]

Hi,

I like to have Apistos in my tank, but they don't survive for a long time. They seem to be ok for around two months, then they stop eating and die.

Other fish are ok, I even have some wild caught fish from Peru that have no problems. Also my Amano shrimp are doing just fine.

I also have a non CO2 tank with Apistos, no problems here. This tank runs on the same tap water, so GH and KH are the same. Soil and temperature are identical.

The only difference is CO2.

Anyone?

 

[Gerryd]

Hey HJ,

What species of apistos do you have? Your feeding regimen for both tanks is the same? I am not sure you can compare the c02 to non-c02 and 'everything' is the same. I know apistos tend to like lower ph water so it is not like they are from fast flow oxygenated water.

That said, apistos can be small and perhaps the c02 is just too much for them long term? I have kept apistos with c02 and no real issues.

I know there is an apisto forum that seems well regarded. I have used it once or twice and go good info there.

http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php

Hope this helps somehow. I hate losing fish and I LOVE apistos of all kinds. Great fish!

 

[animalmgc]

yea co2 is not a problem as I have bred A.ermnopyge and A.agasizzii fire red in co2 planted tanks .What type Apisto are we talking about Apistos are a soft water fish and yes some do adapt to tap(high ph) but the hard water shortens thier lives Also reg water changes A problem I ran across is feeding blackwormsheres a link to some of the wisest apisto keepers.Mike Wise is a moderator there and I don't know of any other breeder that is as skiled as him also ApistoDave hangs out there http://www.apistogramma.com/forum/index.php

 

[dutchy]

It's about A. agissizii and M. ramirezi. The pH of the CO2 enriched tank is 6,4. But in the the non CO2 tank, pH is 7,5. Yet they thrive in the non CO2 tank. GH in both tanks is 7. (136 ppm)

I do change 50% of the water in the CO2 enriched tank, while in the non CO2 tank there are no waterchanges, just topping up.

I do not feed blackworms, but dry food and frozen misquito larvae, white and red. The fish in the non CO2 tank get just frozen food. Could that be the problem? It's worth a try.

Thnx for the link, I will check it out.

 

[Yo-han]

That sit is very usefull indeed. Registered there as well because of questions of my nijsseni's. Maybe the regular waterchanges add something they don't like, like for example copper (that was the reason all my shrimps kept dying but didn't in tanks I did few small waterchanges) or other heavy metals or something. I bred my nijsseni in my heavily CO2 enriched planted tank, can't imagine that to be a problem as long as your plants are growing en there is enough O2.

About the ramirezi, a lot of them are bred in pure 'medicinewater' these fish have low immune systems because there have always been antibiotics in the water. Your tanks probably doesn't and so a lot of these fish die a few weeks after being introduced in your tank. Agizzisii same store for the most common ones and the fancy colors. This is a common practise in eastern Europe. Our lfs stopped with fish from czech for this reason, after a few weeks over 50% dies. But off course I don't know the origin of your fish, just tossing in my 2 cents!

 

[dutchy]

Thnx for the input. I caught the last couple and put them in a quarantine tank. I noticed slower breathing after a while, so I'll lower the CO2 level somewhat tomorrow.
I put some antibiotics in the quarantine tank, maybe I can save these fish.

There are three possible issues now, high CO2, food and big waterchanges. Not difficult to test one by one and hopefully find a result. Not much to do aout bad stock....

Thnx guys.

 

[Tom Barr]

The low frequency of WC's rather than CO2 seems to be more at play there.
Many have bred as I have with CO2.

The other issue is getting good livestock as YoHan mentions, it's a PITA, but buy from breeders if you can.
Same for plants, and other livestock.

Carbon will remove any unquestioned items from the tap, but the higher KH's will be an issue maybe.
The Neon blue Rams I had all died but folks without CO2/few water changes also suffered the same fate.

A few made it about 1 year. Poor genetic stock I think. Maybe in 2-4 years, this will not be an issue, but the $ to rush these types to market is great.
But buying from a breeder should avoid much of this and other issues.

 

[dutchy]

Seems what you guys said was spot on.

I checked with the shop today and he also said it's bad stock. He had a lot of complaints and said I'd better wait for wild caught fish.

Anayway I'm adding a little bit less CO2 now. I did an outgassing test which gave me a pH of 7,8 after 24 hours. For now I set it at 6,6 (was 6,4)

 

[Gerryd]

Seems what you guys said was spot on.

Are you surprised? Great forum here...

 

[Htomassini]

Miryam has these same issues. Some batches are rock solid and others they don't make past a few days. Gb rams are ESP problematic. It seems some of these guys have an inbred strain of tb that only affects them. They will be fine and eating and the next morning dead.




Henry tomassini
www.theplantedaquariumstore.com
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Tom Barr]

Miryam has these same issues. Some batches are rock solid and others they don't make past a few days. Gb rams are ESP problematic. It seems some of these guys have an inbred strain of tb that only affects them. They will be fine and eating and the next morning dead.




Henry tomassini
www.theplantedaquariumstore.com
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I deal with a large wholesaler here(going on 7 years now) and we talk about these issues quite often.
Same thing.

Hit or miss batches, and then they have to get credit from their suppliers.
I've Quarantined, dewormed, antibiotics, you name it. NOTHING I did could save some batches, same for some of the cardinals.
A few others as well.

 

[jerrybforl]

I buy from a breeder here in south Florida. Same thing with me. I had 10 and now only two! The two seem to be fine, but like Henry said one day eating fine next day dead.