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Trouble in Plantland

Discussion in 'Are you new to aquatic plants? Start here' started by Myka, Aug 13, 2009.

  1. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hmmmmm...

    Hi Myka,

    Hmmmmm

    Interesting theory.

    Nah...

    I think I'll stick with good practices.;)

    Oh well whatever works.

    I know a lot of people agree with you.:) Even if they won't admit it.:p

    Biollante
     
  2. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    Don't get me wrong, those practises are often good, but I think quarantining fish should be at your discretion. I knew I should have taken that sw fish out of the QT earlier. When I found him dead I was actually preparing to move him to the display. Should have done it the day before. Dangit.

    So do you think I trimmed my tank ok? Or did I disturb it too much? I think it is going to look a lot better in 2 weeks than it was looking. The rotundifolia will be at the surface by next weekend. I had to do something about that Nanjenshan since the leaves were all decayed for the bottom 2/3. Your idea for the Juncus repens as a foreground plant Biollante, was a great one. I really like how it looks.
     
  3. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Contentious Me?

    Hi Myka,

    All practices with your tanks are your discretion. As far as I know, there are no laws or regulations. Bitter experience has brought me to the regimens I use. I am not preaching (well, maybe a little). These practices become a matter of habit.

    I am not trying to be contentious (Evil Plant Monster?:p ). Just a couple of things I want to say, remembering you have no obligation to accept what I say.

    First my biggest reason for the quarantine, sanitize or sterilize regimen is simply to limit the variables; I consistently hear people attribute something as the problem without even an outside chance it could ever be proven. Much of what is spouted as causation has as much reason as the guy that won’t change his socks, since the last time he did, he got a parking ticket. Could not have had anything to do with parking in the loading zone, no of course not, it was all because he was not wearing his lucky socks.

    Second biggest reason is the investment I have to protect. Quarantine, sanitize or sterilize is a risk management tool, insurance policy if you will. The more you have to lose the greater the need, therefore the higher price you will pay. Risk management with freshwater-planted aquaria is less resource intense, a fancy way of saying “cheaper,” than a reef system. However, since most reef systems require more resources and operate closer to the edge than freshwater-planted aquaria, the expense is accepted.

    Either way these are complex closed little systems, not to be pedantic, if the “quarantine” killed the fish, the failure was to provide adequate care while in quarantine, not a problem of “micro-managing” your system.

    I am not sure what you based your judgment that the act of quarantining the fish caused its demise as opposed to some pathogen or stress induced trauma associated with capture or shipping or any of a dozen other possibilities.

    The general rule is that fish, critters in general, are less stressed in quarantine and given time to adjust and calm down on their own prior to being introduced to a busy tank full of competitive, established critters. While we have a chance to observe and treat our critters, in my case plants as well, as necessary.

    Enough of that, I am sure you have developed a feel and strategies that work for you.

    I think your trimming looks good and it is important to get any dead, decaying stuff out, as well as open up the light for the lower plants.

    Your Rotala rotundifolia is going to end up growing inches per day, so trimming will be a big part of your life, though it rather becomes like feeding the fish.

    I may be away for a bit, what I meant when I said I might have to “go dark.” I think it is all good. A real mess is ending.

    I’ve had a cable network in filming a lot of “B roll,” they like the tanks and the fish room. I’ve done a couple of interviews, the “star” was okay with doing the main interview in front of a main display tank. There had been some fear the movement in the aquarium would be distracting. The bits I have seen I think look stunning, if I do say so myself.

    Don’t pay too much attention to the figure being interviewed that is just some computer generated image, not even realistic looking, some regulation against having Evil Plant Monsters on television, I guess.

    One of the ‘newspapers of record’ is doing a major piece; I think they are publishing Thursday.

    I’ll try to let you know as soon as I can so you can get a look at some of my tanks, if you wish. Don’t worry about all the rubbish being talked about.:(

    I think we are going on line 1 November, I have some underwater cameras and I’ll also stream data from various tanks. I have some cool stuff, at least I think it is cool.:eek:

    Biollante
     
  4. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    There are some fish that just don't do well in quarantine because they get too stressed since a QT isn't set up to their liking. A prime example would be Jawfish. Some reef fish are just too easily stressed, and do better to just be added to the tank where the environment is more natural. The fish that died on me was actually a captive bred Bangaii Cardinal. It was stressed, but was still eating, and looked ok otherwise. I am very sure stress got it since it is a shoaling fish, and was in QT alone.

    I would be very interested to see your tanks and "cool stuff". :D
     
  5. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    Here is a better photo from today:
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    You Should Be Complaining

    Hi Myka,

    I know you do the right things you are experienced and have a good feel. I think most of fish keeping really is about developing ‘that feel’. I truly think that the best role testing and so forth play is helping us understand how things should look, smell and feel.:)

    Your tank looks nice, if you could (it will have to be soon) tell me what your dosing and how. I should know but I am not sure. The CO2 is the obvious problem, but the diy CO2 along with the Excel seems like it should have you farther along.

    Your tank just keeps looking like it should be taking off and seriously out-competing any algae anywhere. I have reread the entire thread and I do not get why things aren’t better. You should be complaining about plants growing out of the tank, having to trim it back three times a week.:D

    Biollante
     
  7. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    Ya, it's all about developing a feel. I think everyone's tanks are different too. Plus there is a certain amount of "luck" in obtaining great stock in the first place. I'm sure you (as with me) have had great looking stock suddenly go downhill the next day. Very frustrating. I do treat ALL incoming corals though. It is definitely a lot about risk factor too. My fw tank is small, and the fish are not expensive, it is not a big risk. My reef tank on the other hand...

    Jeez, here I thought the tank was doing pretty good!! LOL! I do seem to be battling algae for a long time though. Thank you for taking so much time and effort to help me out with my tank Biollante!! Much appreciated. :eek:

    All dosing is in the evening after lights out, same with CO2 change.
    Daily: 7 mL Excel
    Even days: Macros (1/4 tsp KNO3, 1/16 tsp KH2PO4), change out one of the two CO2 canisters
    Odd days: Micros (5 mL Flourish Trace, 5 mL Flourish Iron)
    Sundays: Trim plants, 50% water change
    Weds: Trim rotundifolia and Crispus Sword

    Lighting is 59 watts spiral compact flourescent on for 8 hours per day
    Temp is 78-80
    Feeding Hikari Micro Pellets (can't find anything else small enough) once every second day
    Toss in a small piece of soggy overcooked veggie twice per week

    I have the Atomizer hooked up now, and it takes quite awhile for enough pressure to build up. I can't even blow through the CO2 hole the diffuser is so fine. It seems to be working though.
     
  8. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Thank You!

    Hi Myka,

    I recommend dosing in the morning or as early, as is practical, preferably before the lights come on for the day.

    I am going to recommend a change in dosing, I think it is going to be best to mix up a weeks’ worth at a time.

    • Into ¾ cup of RO or distilled water mix:
    • KNO3 ½ teaspoon
    • KH2PO4 1/16 teaspoon
    • MgSO4 ¾ teaspoon
    • Add RO or distilled water to make a cup.
    • Store in a dark bottle, such as an empty Hydrogen Peroxide bottle, mark “Macro”.
    • Shake well, dose 1/3 cup three times a week.

    For now, continue Flourish and Flourish Iron as you have been.

    When you get the CSM+B:
    • Into ¾ cup of RO or distilled water mix
    • CSM+B ½ teaspoon, even a bit more would be okay.
    • (take your time mixing, CSM+B can take a bit of time to dissolve)
    • Add RO or distilled water to make a cup.
    • Store in a dark bottle, such as an empty Hydrogen Peroxide bottle, mark “Micros.”
    • Shake well, dose 1/3 cup three times a week.

    Sounds as though the atomizer is doing what an atomizer is supposed to do, keep an eye on the critters.;)

    I’m a potted plant that has been in the legal battle from hell for the last 12 years, interspersed by a ridiculous ailment for 2 plus years, then once that is under control some nincompoop decides disabling safety devices on some radiation producing equipment would be fun, so I now can I can say I’ve been chelated. :(

    Therefore, when I tell you I am happy to help, I really am.:)

    The fact that my respite is over and I have other mischief to make is on the one hand good news for my family, and me but I really have been thankful for these last few months. I shall try to get back and keep track of your progress. I am sure you will do well.

    I thank you for being such an earnest and willing partner.:)

    Biollante
     
  9. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    Thanks Biollante! I will try the new recipe, and I will dose in the morning. I just started dosing in the evening about a week ago since I found the CO2 worked better if it had overnight to get going. That and I was having to get up 30 minutes earlier just to dose my tanks, so I started dosing at night when I have more time.

    It's funny you say to keep an eye on the critters (for gasping I assume) because both my true SAE and a Galaxy Rasbora went carpet surfing within 18 hours of adding the Atomizer. Probably a coincidence, but odd anyway. Sucks though since I had just put an ad up to find a new home for the SAE like 2 hours before I found him. :(

    I am very sorry about your ailment. Ailments really seem to strike a lot of people these days. Maybe we are more aware, but maybe we are more ailed.

    Well, I am a willing partner because I want this to work, and it's quite obvious you have much more experience with these weeds than I do!
     
  10. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    The Crispus Sword is sending out a flower shoot. It broke the water surface yesterday. Should I let it flower or should I prune it off?
     
  11. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Flowers-Good Thing

    Hi Myka,

    By all means let it flower!!! It should flower at least a week, ten days maybe even two weeks.:cool:

    This is one of the truly great things about this plant! They are one of the best flowering true aquatics around.;)

    The carpet surfing SAE and Galaxy Rasbora, likely a coincidence with the atomizer, by the way, too bad. Usually too much CO2 doesn’t allow for much in the way of extracurricular activities. Carpet surfing is usually an O2 rich environment and/or fright.

    One other note: After you feed the soggy vegetables’, you do make sure to remove any uneaten stuff. Just checking.:eek:

    The ailment was “something interesting” (Note: When doctors from all over the place find you “interesting,” think, Guinea Pig). Turned out “they” were wrong and it is now under control. I get a little weird after the treatments sometimes, but not bad. The radiation thing was much more miserable but not life threatening. Oddly enough, “they” tell me that when people survive the radiation they actually tend to live longer and healthier lives. I hope that turns out to be true for Evil Plant Monsters.:rolleyes:

    I wish I would have gotten the lifetime membership here before all this happened, would certainly lessened the anxiety as they tell you how long you are going to live. Turns out, I have lots of time. I mean it would be a bummer if you gave them US $80 and they said your lifetime membership is only good until next week, Boogers!

    Biollante
     
  12. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    LOL!!! Re the lifetime membership, but in a sardonic sort of way. LOL!

    I know all about radiation and chemotherapy (secondhand experience), so I understand how people can get "weird" after treatments. I hope it all works out for you.

    I didn't realize the Sword would bloom so often! Well, I figure I must be doing something right though. That's my little pep rally to keep going I guess! :p

    The Rotala rotundifolia is pearling right now. :D

    I don't have any dark containers (will go shopping), can I just use clear containers, and keep them in the dark?

    I actually haven't been removing the veggies. :eek: It only gets gnawed on at night, and it doesn't appear to be rotting, so I figured it was ok. How long can I leave it? 24 hours? It's been in there 48 now.
     
  13. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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  14. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Cool Dark Places

    Hi Myka,

    You are doing just about everything right…:)

    I think you are finally seeing the CO2 kicking in, maybe start cutting back the Excel a milliliter less every third dosing something like that and see what happens.

    Just keep the fertz in cool dark place, even dry is best kept in the dark, mainly the CSM+B.

    I generally remove them the next day. Remember they have the same net effect as any other rotting plant material.;)

    Also cooking to different doneness’s doesn’t hurt. Variety is good, you will also note favorites along tha way, but don’t give in they need variety.

    Not sure if doneness’s is a word.:confused:

    Biollante
     
  15. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    Here I thought it was Echinodorus not Aponogeton! :eek: A 4' monster?? Yikes! :eek: Mine is actually very bronze/pink for the most part, not so green as all the pics.

    I will get the Macros mixed up right now. :)

    I hope the CSM+B gets here soon because I am out of Flourish and Flourish Iron, and I should be dosing it tomorrow. Will it cause me an issue if I don't dose the Micros for a week or so while I wait for the CSM+B?
     
  16. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Plant monster, Evil At That

    Hi Myka,

    Well I may be mistaken, Echinodorus or Aponogeton, either can flower, but I think you have a potential monster. That is an opinion of a Plant monster, Evil at that.

    To be honest I think you have a tank of contentious plants.:rolleyes:

    Of course it would be better to keep micronutrients going, however maybe you just need to hope the CSM+B gets there ASAP. I don’t it is worth buying expensive stuff for three doses or fewer.

    If you go more than a couple of days or even a week I don’t think it will be terrible, just don’t make it a habit.:D

    Biollante
     
  17. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    Ok, thanks! Well, maybe you could suggest some plants that aren't so contentious that have interesting foliage? Maybe I will replace th Sword.
     
  18. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Star is Bored, Er, Born!

    Hi Myka

    How much of a redo are you going for?:D

    I have warned you about taking artistic advice of any sort from an Evil Plant Monster, haven't I?:eek:

    I think I would try removing it and just do a little rearranging you have a couple of candidates for star of the tank.

    Sometimes less is more. My problem was with Less my bookkeeper, it was always "more for Less.":D

    Biollante
     
  19. Myka

    Myka Prolific Poster

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    Hahahaha!! Well, I don't mind doing a full rescape! I do have a couple favourites that I would be sad to see go though. I am semi-happy with it now though too. Haha! I am starting to think the Toninas won't get going. They start going, then get overtaken with alga of one type of another, then recover, then it starts again. They are slowly shrinking in height.

    I'm not happy with the driftwood though. *grumble*

    The hair algae is getting a foothold again too. I hope one day I will be able to find a balance and I won't have to always be battling the threat of an alga outbreak.
     
  20. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    True Confessions

    Hi Myka,

    True Confessions time.:(

    I have absolutely no idea why you are having so much trouble; this tank should have recovered weeks ago.

    Even if the CO2 was not quite right, even with any of the problems you have mentioned, people I know or for that matter, I have had tanks of my own that have the same or worse sorts of problems.

    I am going to need a little time for what passes for my brain to get my thoughts straight. I have written about 20 pages, none of it comes out right. I have got to be missing something, big.

    It may be time for drastic action.

    I been thinking and it is a painful process.

    Just wanted you to know I wasn't ignoring you.

    Biollante

    Biollante
     
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