Tropica substrate and liquid ferts

If you can provide more info, that would be great, I'll be hanging out with the Tropica and Karen Crowd and taking them around to the Bay area for the AGA conference this Nov. So I'll plenty of time to figure most things out there and try to forge a strong connection and shipping/business relationship, we need something to counter ADA in the USA as far as a product line.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

Clay does make for a good CEC product, Cation exchange capacity.
ADa uses it as well and Seachem etc, this allows the transfer of nutrients, but does it actively lock enough nutrients out of the water column to achieve this in terms of algae control?

No.

Will it reduce nutrients vs sand? Yes.
What happens if the exchnage sites are all full after some time?
Things like this will make a difference.

Stressed plants will leak a lot. Healthy plants tend to leak duifferent compounds, less N, more carbs. Stressed plants have many issues that are lacking in terms of NH4 uptake also.

Odd they used NH4NO3 instead of KNO3.
That is likely mightly diluted.

Otherwise some clown will add way too much and kill their fish.
NO3 vs NH4 is more like 200X or more in terms of algae inducement.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

Any Pics of the substrate?

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

Well, Tropica fiolks will be here for the AGA conference and I'm taking them and Ole out to see some aquatic weeds.

I'll ask for product samples etc and see if they bring some for us to view.
TMG is wildly popular here and has been for decade or longer.

I still use it.

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

Two simple questions that run counter:
Why do we ever get green water then?
Or why cannot we simply add progressively more and more fish load to supply our nutrient needs?

Simple questions right?
If NH4 is really not causing the issue, then what specifically is?
I can consistently add NH4 and get GW.
I can consistently add more and more fish and get GW.
If it's not NH4, then what is it?
I can add each nutrient, NH4 is the most likely candidate.

I think what's happening though is not really that counter to what I've seen:

Adding a little bit of NH4 to the substrate is not a large issues.
Adding a lot is.
Adding a little light, not an issue also, adding a lot, is.
Getting away with substrate ferts, TMG and lean N&P water column with lower light is possible with fish loading only.
Lots of large water changes will address NH4 dosing issues.
Many do these lower light, substrate ferts in new tanks.

ADA AS has NH4, so does PS( a lot more).
So does soil.

Folks have some issues until most of it is all gone due to bacterial oxidation and use Activated carbon/zeolite, water changes, mature filters(why might adding those to a new tank help after all? PO4? K+? cannot be CO2 or other things, O2? NO3? NH4?)

If adding NH4 to a tank works so well, why bother with aquarium fertilizers at all? Shouldn't we just use terrestrial fertilizers?
Why would pulling up a jobes stick or tossing one into a high light cause algae then?

Now adding a tiny amount of NH4 is likely fine to lower light well planted tank.
Since it's a tiny amount, it's not really going to a whole lot unless you have a lower light tank perhaps. If you add it namely to the substrate, the layer will settle and the top will be namely NO3 after 2-3 weeks and the bottom layer should turn anaerobic and be maintained as NH4.

What happens when you pull up a soil based tank in the start up phase(first few weeks)?

You can test and try it yourself.
Do not take my word for it

It's all about the dose and not the black or white add it or not mentality.
A tiny amount is going to have less significant effect, putting into a grain like the ADA product likely would help some plants. And outer grain will not have NH4, only the inside after a peroid of time, the roots will still be able to get at the NH4 lock inside the grain though.

As long as we have LOW DOSE of NH4, like fish waste levels(which tend to used ASAP and seldom if ever measured), there's little harm.
High light also makes a large difference.

Troopica is welcomed to offer an alternative explaination and also discuss specifics such as dose, light intensity, anmd plant biomass, water column levels and location etc.

But I can say adding a little bit of NH4 is obviously not causing algae also, most folks have fish after all.

I can also say why not use terrestrial fertilizers?
why have those not been successfull if what they say is really true based on the above comments from Tropica?

They would do themselves out of a business
Adding a little bit and saying it helps is a bit misleading.
If you add only a little bit to the water column, it's hard to get much impact, if you add more to the substrate and have it locked inside, then the plant roots can get at it.

If you lock it inside individual grains vs a solid layer like soil, uprooting should not be such an issue.

There's a lot mroe it than the simplisitic explanation recieved.
I'm only hearing this 3rd party from Tropica(I know Troels and Ole, I do not think either of us saw any differences between what we talk about it about NH4)

Regards,
Tom Barr

 

It's all about the dose.
I do not have their macro ferts here.
I suspect and know Claus well enough to know he's not going to put much in there. He's always errored more on the conservative side.

After all, we do have fish and they do produce NH4, but do you ever see any in the water column?

No.

I just talked to Troels and Ole not more than 2 months ago.
We drove all over the CA coast and I took them to see many natural ecosystems.

I have no clue as to the context of the question posed nor the response.
I can easily repeat my test and give the data if you are going to repeat the test.

I can promise you if you add enough NH4 and enough light, you will get algae.
You will also get dead or sick fish.

Again, it is all about the dose.


Regards,
Tom Barr

 

Well, I still do not know the context of conversaion, so I guess sure thing, you are welcomed.

Claus figures it this way for the conservative concentrations:
you can always add more, but most of the line is geared for the newby, for the
expert or high growth/light tank, he figures they know they have more growth and will add more nutrients obviously.

Problem is, even experts follow the directions too literally
You add more ferts when you have more growth.more CO2/more light etc

NH4 is a squrriley nutrient.
You can add it, sure. You can even add it as the sole supply of N for plants, some added .5-0.8ppm per day and then did 80% daily water changes with no ill effects.

The more light, the higher the dose, the more fish, lowering the CO2 with NH4 dosing etc, these all will help induce a number of algae species if you keep pushing things.

Regards,
Tom Barr