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Too much fish ??

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by SniperLk, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. SniperLk

    SniperLk Junior Poster

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    Hello,

    I'm thinking about the future fauna of my 300L heavily planted tank. The tank is filtered through a 1000L/H internal filter (juwel rio series). I've also a 1200L/H powerhead to shake all that water :D

    So I'd like to add :
    30 cardinalis
    20 Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi (black neons)
    10 Puntius Pentazona (the peace ones, not to confuse with puntius sumatra )

    4 Papiliochromis/Microgeophagus altispinosa
    2 pelvicachromis pulcher

    10 ottos and 3/4 SAE

    I think that the high biomass will help a lot to consume all the nitrogen waste but I'm still wondering if it's a correct amount of fish ? :confused:

    Thanks in advance.:)
     
  2. helgymatt

    helgymatt Guru Class Expert

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    How about add a few of the schools at a time rather than all at once? Then you will be able to figure out if you have too many fish. Also all those fish will be tough to cycle a tank with, even if it is already cycled I wouldn't add them all at once.
     
  3. SniperLk

    SniperLk Junior Poster

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    Hello and thanks for your reply ;)

    Unfortunately I don't really have the choice coz I'm ordering them online.. My tank is cycled since 4/6 months maybe (that's why I've a high plant biomass) and I've got a 60L in backup.

    For for you the final numbers are maybe right but that's too much in one shot ?
     
  4. crystalview

    crystalview Guru Class Expert

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    Are you planning to cycle with these fish? The numbers don't look to bad for a cycled tank, but cycling with the fish will be hard on them. Also if your tank is cycled. Are you adding them all at once? This could raise your nitrates a lot.
    Plant mass helps with the absorption of the waste. What plants and how many do you plant to start out with?
    Also just a thought but why 3 or 4 SAE's aren't they great with algae at first and the stop eating and can become aggressive.
     
  5. SniperLk

    SniperLk Junior Poster

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    Hi crystalview

    The true SAE are not aggressive as far as I know.. My tank has been cycled since a couple of months so there are almost plants everywhere.. Here is the list :
    Ammania gracilis
    HZ
    Hygrophila difformis
    rotala indica
    HM
    Rotala Rotundifolia
    Limnophila aromatica
    eleo
    riccia
    HC
    blyxa japonica

    I'd like to add them all at once because like I said before I'm ordering them online, so I don't really have the choice.. I only got a 80L as a backup in case of problems..
     
  6. tedr108

    tedr108 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: SAEs

    My SAEs became rather aggressive over time, but only when I fed my fish wafers or dropped rocks with algae on them in my tank. When my SAEs had a food source to protect, they chased every other fish off. The usual recipients of the aggressiveness were my Otos, Panda Corys, shrimp and other SAEs (there was usually one dominant one) -- the other fish were never hurt, but they did get chased/rammed over and over. The Pandas especially were not smart enough to stay away. In the end, I gave all of my SAEs back to the LFS -- I'm rather protective of my Pandas. :)

    I have also heard that SAEs move away from algae eating as they get older. I didn't really have enough algae in my tank to keep my SAEs fed, so I had to give other things. Mine ate just about anything mind you: flakes, pellets, wafers, mosquito larvae ... you name it.
     
  7. aquabillpers

    aquabillpers Lifetime Charter Member
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    I think that those fish would "fit" in your tank, but you should consider the effect on that aquatic environment with all of those fish interacting.

    You might consider a smaller number of fish and fewer species.

    I think if SAE's didn't eat algae they wouldn't be kept in aquariums. They have too many negatives.

    Bill
     
  8. tedr108

    tedr108 Lifetime Charter Member
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    SniperLk,

    I just reread your post. The first time I read it, since you spoke in liters (rather than gallons), I didn't really do the math ... but, I think you will need more filtering power, especially with a higher fish load. The powerhead is fine, but doesn't filter anything. Many of us here go at about a factor of 10, i.e. 10L/H for each tank liter ... that would put you closer to 3000L/H on a filter. Admittedly, that is probably overkill, but 1000L/H could cause some problems -- you don't have much room for error. I realize your setup may be finalized and you cannot afford any more right now. That is fine. But, you'll have to keep a close eye on your tank (not missing water changes, removing dead critters, etc.), and that is all the more reason to take it slow in adding your fish, like many already recommended here.

    I actually got by very well on a high-tech tank (CO2, EI, high light) with a factor of 5 (50G tank, 260gph filter) during the day. However, after finding this site and realizing I was underpowered, I bought an inexpensive hang-on-back filter (bio-wheel type) rated at 280gph and ran that whenever my CO2 was off. I didn't run it during the day, because it would have removed much of my CO2. My tank was very healthy ... even when I was away and had to miss my weekly water change now and then.
     
  9. SniperLk

    SniperLk Junior Poster

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    Thanks for your reply..

    To be honest if I could I would remove the internal filter to replace it with a canister filter like a eheim 2028 (>200€ ouch) or with a JBL cristal profi (still expensive).

    The internal filter is surely effective because it never gets clogged, and easy to clean.. however it ruins a bit the beautiful look of an aquascape.

    Anyway I'll follow your advice about fishs and even lower a bit the numbers..

    But I still think that the trio of puntis pentazona, black neons and cardinalis will be appealing.

    Black neons and cardinalis will make a good contrasted group and the puntius will make the tank lively and maybe kept the schools close :)

    Tell me if I'm wrong ;)
     
  10. tedr108

    tedr108 Lifetime Charter Member
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    As far as your tank's bioload goes, your tetras will be fairly light ... they are small and do not produce a lot of waste. I know nothing about Puntius Pentazona as far as bioload goes.

    Yes, your fish combination will be appealing.
     
  11. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    Keep in mind that the barb's are a bigger bodied fish than either of the two tetra species.....

    So they take a bit more tank space than the same LENGTH of a tetra if that makes any sense. You may want to do a bigger regular water change or more smaller ones to help out.

    I have kept cards and black neons before and they get on well. They will school both together and in their own groups. The blacks will inhabit higher areas of the tank than the cards IME.

    Also, barbs are good eaters, as are the black neons. I would really think about a decent canister before long.

    Raise the temp a bit when you first get them and do regular water changes for the first few weeks, as much ammonia will be in the water, and the tank will cycle more because of it.

    Sounds nice. Good luck!
     
  12. abcemorse

    abcemorse Prolific Poster

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    you could check the marineland c-360, 360 pgh for about $200, I love mine! sorry for the units, but lazy american here.....:D
     
  13. SniperLk

    SniperLk Junior Poster

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    Hi :)

    Gerryd : Actually the barbs are a bit too big for me too... I'd rather have rasbora espei or hengeli (which seems to school a bit more) instead of barbs but I can't find them..

    Maybe I won't order the barbs and wait until I find some rasboras.. and I heard some guys saying that puntius pentazona are like dead fish (not very active) :/

    abcemorse : Never heard about that brand name before.. I don't think it's available here in western europe union..
     
  14. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Well, it is easier to ADD fish to a tank than remove then lol

    So, I would go with what you are CERTAIN of first, get the tank going, see how you like it. You can always add another species later......

    I know that is harder for you with no quarantine tank, but even a 5 or 10 gallon can be setup for 2-3 weeks while they quarantine...
     
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