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Tom's special substrate

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by Simpte, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Are you going to give us any hints about your experimental substrate? Some of us are getting impatient!!! When are you going to let us in on it?
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    It'll be till Oct or so.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Tom, you and Greg will need to rent a warehouse to store the stuff. You're
    going to have a lot of orders, once this gets developed. And a reasonable
    price plus shipping for subscribers is suggested. I think you mentioned just
    shipping on APC, which I think will backfire on you :eek:

    Bill
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    No, we plan on giving some away for shipping cost.
    New subscriptions only:)
    Ahh there is a catch, but since PS and AS cost roughly 30$ for a little bag, this will pay for itself for joining the BarrReport for peanuts.

    You folks will get near cost and the shipping etc. Also, unlike EC, Flourite and other heavy products, this stuff is fairly light weight to ship.

    So you could do a 75 gal for about 50$ or less.
    The ADA version would run................
    The SeaChem version would run.......
    The EC version would run..........

    The only competitor: MPV Turface.

    I've always been able to undercut anyone on CO2, light, nutrients, and substrates..........
    I basically give stuff away..........but now I'm doing the BarrReport so I can intice a few more, perhaps a lot more folks into signing up.

    The articles will help anyone, myself included.
    So even the most hardened vet will get a lot out of the monthly articles.

    I will be doing a marine plant version as well after some of the main parts of the FW are completed. So I can see the articles going for several years now.

    I do plan on maintaining distinct articles sections etc for the Marine plants.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  5. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Well, do keep us posted! There's gonna be a whole bunch of us standing in
    line when it's available! :cool:

    Bill
     
  6. Safado

    Safado Junior Poster

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    Re: Tom's special substrate


    Curses. I knew I signed up too soon...
    :D
     
  7. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Is it October yet? :)
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Well, it will not be a lot for the sign up and only if they want it, it'll be sent a predetermined amount at cost, the rest of the folks will get it for cheap.

    But unless you are a subscriber, you will not be able to get it at all.


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  9. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Hey Matt, we could always hold him hostage at the GCAS meeting until he gives up his recipe! lol
     
  10. reiverix

    reiverix Lifetime Members
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Wow, if you miss the Oct release you're gonna have to travel by night until things settle down. I'm imagining ADB Amazonia dens where people just sit and run their hands through the substrate, wasting their lives and neglecting their families :)

    Couldn't we get a little picture of the wet stuff just to ease our pain? Just a little picture.

    If my order looks big, it isn't because I'm auctioning the stuff off on Ebay for a killer profit margin...honest. I mean, it isn't like I've been working on a logo or anything.

    And mentioning supply seems pretty valid. Do you forsee having trouble supplying the demand early on or will you wait until you have more than enough before you start selling? Not that I am suggesting waiting!

    Just for the record, I call FIRST!
     
  11. matpat

    matpat Prolific Poster

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Might be easier to just ask him to bring a small sample to the meeting :)
     
  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    I can supply the needs of a large organic farming operation, actually, several.
    You do not have enough planted tanks to run out of this stuff.

    It is also Certified Organic, no one else can make that claim.
    The grain size is 1.4mm to 2.8mm 14-7 mesh size.
    Mixes well with peat and sand.

    3% Ca
    0.8% Mg
    1% sulfur
    0.05% Mn
    0.04% Zn
    0.2% NH4
    0.2% Water soluble N
    1.6% water insouble N

    They have richer NH4 depending on need.

    All products are natural, contain humic, Fluvic, ulmic and amino acids, coated with souble carbohydrate(molasses) for enhancing microbial growth, these microbial communities contribute to N minerization, nutrient uptake and natural plant protection.

    Also, they are available world wide in the Middle East, Asia, N and S America, Europe.

    Gee, I sound like some type of salesman :eek:

    We will see how it will do next to the ADA stuff shortly.
    It's not quite as dark as the ADA stuff and it's a little smaller grained.

    They have a size smaller also, 0.6mm to 1.4mm.

    I am also seeing about getting MPV Turface black also, it's sort of grey, a tad like Onyx sand, looks much nicer though and hopefully the pro league formulation will be available in this color also. This is about 1/2 the grain size as normal Turface(also sold as Profile, Schlutz's aquatic plant soil etc for 6-8$ for 10lbs, this should be about 12$ for 50lbs).

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  13. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Oh sure! Be civil about it!!! lol
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    I'll bring some samples to the OH talk for you as well as some of the Yuba Elatine.

    I just founhd almost identical Aqua soil for roughly 15-20$ for a 50lb sack.

    That's 10X less than ADA Aqua soil, same stuff, looks the same also(this is a bit less uniform in sizing is all).
    It's also 4X less than Flourite/Onyx sand and about the same cost as MPV Turface.

    The only things cheaper are soil and plain sand.

    Expensive substrates have bugged me for years.
    I've reduced or eliminated the cost of Ferts, lights, CO2, need for RO, cables, pH controllers, test kits, DIY stands, tanks, and substrates was one of the last items to focus on.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  15. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Sounds like your making a lot of enemies. I love the idea!
     
  16. reiverix

    reiverix Lifetime Members
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Amano is going to send ninjas after you. :eek:

    After you conquer substrates, may I suggest placing a few moments focus on making glass lily pipes affordable AND available for all (subscribers)?

    I really appreciate what you have done. I know that you have helped me out a lot personally and I am very confident that if it weren't for your advice, the advice of others on the forums, and eI specifically, I would not be in this hobby right now. Looking back at the sewer I used to call a tank, all the frustration of not knowing how to deal with my algae problems and all the $$$ and time I wasted trying things that didn't work, well...I just really appreciate your willingness and desire to share how to go about things the right way (and without requiring me to empty my pockets to you in the process).

    Oh God. Look at me. I promised myself I wouldn't cry. :(

    Making a solid substrate affordable will I think go a long way towards improving people's tanks because they will no longer have to settle or compromise with less than stellar (or dangerous) substrates because of finances. Growing nice plants and displaying them in an attractive manner shouldn't be out of people's financial range.

    I'll be running new tanks bare-bottomed between now and the release.
     
  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    Well, the reason why I've held off seller this is not without merit.

    You must rinse this product to death(still not a a killer issue) to remove the molasses/tannins.

    I used a small amount below the sand and rinsed it very well prior.
    When I used 10 lbs at 3" depth alone in a 10 gal, I rinsed for a couple of hours.

    Made Flourite rinsing look easy, but with a 100 mesh screen, it might go easier.

    All the other characteristics are good.
    Just this one issue.

    I am going to look into it further.
    Meanwhile, I am going after the semi soft clays for the Aqua soil materials.
    I'll come up with something cheap, as in 15-20$ for 50lb bags.
    It might take me a little time, but it'll happen.

    I think folks would love the looks of this material (powersand like stuff), it's about the same weight at the ADA aqua soil and little finer grain.

    I can have the comapny make it without the molasses , but I need to buy a ton at a time. I'll see what that cost.

    It does not cloud the water at all, unlike Flourite, ADA soils etc.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  18. Simpte

    Simpte Prolific Poster

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    I like molasses. :) Leave it in. Is weight going to be an issue with the new substrate?
     
  19. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    It's light weight, but this will be like the ADa stuff.
    I doubt I'll sell this particular product at this point.
    But.........I'm experimenting and looking for something else as well as getting ready to run a Aqua soil like test.

    The powersand issue is less of a problem, I'm fairly sure I'll find something.

    If you want to look at this product, I do have photo's(and it does look good), but I'm not likely to sell it.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  20. chubasco

    chubasco Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Tom's special substrate

    You might want to wear some pants at night...temps are starting to drop :p

    Tom, would it be ok to mix this new stuff of yours with some sand/gravel
    to give it some weight for planting? Have you worked out a suggested ratio?

    Bill
     
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