This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Toads Tank Thread

Discussion in 'Fish for Planted Tanks' started by toads74, Jan 23, 2017.

  1. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    Hi! I have a 20g long that I'm setting up as a planted tank with pressurized co2, but have the itch to try some nano fish breeding also. I've previously been successful breeding guppies, endlers, shrimp, and rainbows in other non co2 tanks. I've had guppies also in a co2 tank, but the fry never survived, I think due to the co2. I'm sure there are limitations that fry impose concerning water quality and co2/o2 content, and possibly micro nutrients (myth?). I'm thinking white clouds, chili rasboras, basically anything that is appropriate for that tank size. I'm thinking medium lighting, or maybe a tad less, florin volcanit substrate, other Parameters hard/soft, cool/tropical are up for grabs depending on the fish selected.


    Any suggestions as to what "co2 tolerant" species to try, or that you've had success breeding in a co2 tank?
     
    #1 toads74, Jan 23, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2017
  2. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    11:05 PM
    I have bred several fish in my Co2 tank with EI, never had problems. I guess you could have issues if you screw up with too much Co2 or too much micros that can become toxic... but I mean, you really need to screw up a great deal! I wouldn't worry about that if you follow the common rules:


    - For Co2, start low and increase it step-by-step very slowly (I.e. 2 weeks time frame) and watch your fish until you reach at least 1 PH drop. If you use a canister filter, you must be more careful than if instead you use a wet dry. And even more careful if you have a canister and a closed tank (less degas, more possibility of Co2 buildup). Fish must be comfortable and not gasping at the surface. Shrimp must be wandering around as usually and being calm, not running or jumping around like crazy all the time.


    - For micros dosing, start with giving your plants 0.05 ppm Fe every other day with weekly water change. Then you'll see if you need more.


    if you follow the above rules you'll be safe!
     
  3. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    Thanks for the reply fablau. I'm getting things nailed down somewhat I think. Is the .1ppm Fe all via CSM ok?


    Im thinking 1/2 EI, since plant mass will be low to start with, dosing macro and micro daily. Getting enough stable co2 has always been the biggest problem I've had in other setups, so I'm working on getting that squared away first. I'm getting a 1.0 ph drop and seems stable at this level so far, though I'm not happy with the looks of the cerges pump and the spray bars, or a tad bit of surface film. More work to do yet.


    3x 13w 5000k CFL bulbs +cheap shop reflectors. ~40 par by the calculator.


    6 hour photoperiod


    eheim 2215 canister, lots of bio media, cycled for ~4 months now


    2x10 cerges, Sicce 1.5, co2 injected at the intake + Venturi loop, independent if the canister.


    pressurized co2 with 2-stage reg
     
  4. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    11:05 PM
    You are very welcome, and on the right track! Your setup looks ok. And yes, I am currently dosing about 0.15 ppm Fe from CSM plus 0.03 ppm Fe from DTPA plus 0.03 Fe from Glutamate a week, but I am lowering CSM even further because it looks like my tank like low dosing, but in your case that'll depend by many factors (substrate, plant mass, light, etc). With 40 PAR at the substrate, I wouldn't dose too much either, I'd do 1/2 EI for macros but I'd lower micros even further, similar to my own schedule (with daily dosing maybe 0.025 ppm Fe from CSM?)
     
  5. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    Sounds good. I'll cut back the micros some more, by 1/3 to make it easy. That would give 0.03 Fe via CSM. The substrate is about 6 months old and was lightly planted so I doubt it's micro depleted yet.


    current daily dosing ppm levels:


    0.03 Fe via CSM


    1.6 NO3 via KNO3


    0.3 PO4 via KH2PO4


    50 - 80% water change weekly. 100% ro:


    gh 3 - CaSO4, MgSO4, K2SO4. 4:2:1 by volume


    kh 2 - NaCO3


    ph 7.4 degassed
     
    #5 toads74, Feb 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2017
  6. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    11:05 PM
    Sounds good! Keep us posted :)
     
  7. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    Current pic


    [​IMG]
     
  8. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
  9. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    Test testtest


    [​IMG]
     
  10. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    I changed the dosing to what we discussed and the plants are responding positively. I'm seeing healthier new growth, but still getting algae on the older leaves. I think I need to bump up the co2 some more. I recalibrate do the ph probe, 7.2 degassed and 6.2 at its peak. The rotala is the fastest grower at the moment, though everything took a beating until a couple weeks ago.


    [img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","width":"600","src":"https://i.imgur.com/hXfVsb7.jpg[/img]


    Here's its neighbor, 20 long also, 2x13w CFL, no co2:


    [img2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","width":"600","src":"https://i.imgur.com/ldCgZBa.jpg[/img]
     
  11. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    11:05 PM
    Good signs! Yes, try to raise Co2 if you can, that'll help even further. Looking forward to see the progress.
     
  12. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    Things are coming along smoothly. Removed the co2 spraybar, good trim, and added some otos a week ago. I had to dial back the co2 for them a little bit and to adjust for the spraybar removal, but working it back up slowly. The two worst plants seem to be recovering now, crypt wendtii and Anubias. I'm beginning to wonder if the tank was suffering from too many or unstable ferts/co2 until switching to daily dosing. The Hc is spreading, which is better than the receding of all my previous attempts at it.


    Need to give the otos some recovery time from their pet store experience before doing too much more.


    3o7WcjK.jpg


    RdNbcC8.jpg


    yHbJAZS.jpg
     
  13. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    11:05 PM
    Looking good! Keep it up!
     
  14. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    So here's an update. Critters are happy and I've started cycling a sponge filter for the fry tank. The guppy popped out some fry the other day but I haven't found any, the two angels probably got them before they had any chance. Next time around the other tank should be ready with the sponge and a bunch of java moss.


    Keeping up the dosing at 1/2 EI daily for macros, and 1/3 EI daily for micros, 70% wc weekly. I'm seeing some BBa trying to take over the hc, which is about half covered with it now. BBa is also in the mystery plant on the left of the first pic in post #9. That plant is also getting some melting and larger node spacing than it has in the shrimp tank, so it seems to be in distress. A little BBa also in the baby tears.


    I did did find that the co2 output was way lower than it was set, about a .4 ph drop instead of a 1.0 drop. I figured out that the needle valve has some play in the threads that would throw it off if bumped. As long as I put some tension on it it seems to stay for now. Took it apart and seems ok, no debris, so guess I could use a new or better valve...


    I've eased the ph drop up to 1.1 in hopes of nixing the bba and melting. It's been 2 weeks since the valve issue and the co2 increase, and doesn't seem to be getting any better.
     
    #14 toads74, Mar 18, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2017
  15. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    11:05 PM
    Thanks for the update, hopefully raising the Co2 will fix the BBA. :)
     
  16. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    Thanks for the help Fab.


    I think I'm getting ahead of the BBA by increasing co2 a tad. The catch is I'm getting this brown filimentatious algae instead. BGA is decreasing also. Not too worried yet about co2, though if I have to increase it much more I'm going to have to do something about the reactor as it seems to be about at its limit. Seems like a huge amount of co2 is going into the thing. Lobelia is getting huge, and time for a big trim. The limnophilia is a space hog, so I think that will be leaving soon. If the algae gets better after a heavy trim I'm inclined to think it's still co2.


    Still at a 1.1 ph drop, and increased macros to 2/3 EI daily. Micros still at 1/3.


    An issue of concern is for the livestock. They seem to be ok with the co2 (not gasping, heavy breathing, or surface hugging) as far as I can tell, but they have slowed down a fair bit and are not eating much. Otos seem just fine. Two angels are eating less but behaving normally otherwise. The only other livestock, a serpae tetra and two guppies, are in trouble. All three are getting skinny and haven't seen them eat anything for almost a week now, though the tetra I can coax into eating frozen brine. The guppies are so bad I moved them to the fry tank to see if I can nurse them back. Not sure what's going on. Any ideas welcome.


    UtSpDT4.jpg


    AjlrGRa.jpg
     
  17. toads74

    toads74 Lifetime Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    117
    Local Time:
    1:05 AM
    Thanks for the help Fab.


    I think I'm getting ahead of the BBA by increasing co2 a tad. The catch is I'm getting this brown filimentatious algae instead. BGA is decreasing also and the melting has improved. If I have to increase it much more I'm going to have to do something about the reactor as it seems to be about at its limit. Seems like a huge amount of co2 is going into the thing. Lobelia is getting huge, and time for a big trim of everything. If the algae gets better after a heavy trim I'm inclined to think it's still co2.


    Still at a 1.1 ph drop, and increased macros to 2/3 EI daily. Micros still at 1/3.


    I'm concerned about the livestock. They seem to be ok with the co2 (not gasping, heavy breathing, or surface hugging) as far as I can tell, but they have slowed down a fair bit and are not eating much. Otos seem just fine. Two angels are eating less but behaving normally otherwise. The only other livestock, a serpae tetra and two guppies, are in trouble. All three are getting skinny and haven't seen them eat anything for almost a week now, though the tetra I can coax into eating frozen brine. The guppies are so bad I moved them to the fry tank to see if I can nurse them back. Not sure what's going on. Any ideas welcome.


    AjlrGRa.jpg


    UtSpDT4.jpg
     
  18. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,810
    Likes Received:
    614
    Local Time:
    11:05 PM
    Well, if you are getting those algae means your plants are not growing well, something is wrong. From your pics, your substrate looks like ADA AS or similar, so I guess you still have good nutrients there. I'd personally do this:


    1. Buy some algae eaters such as Amano shrimp to ate least help you with algae.


    2. Remove manually as much algae as possible, and keep it in check.


    3. Stop dosing altogether for a couple of weeks. Plants will be ok with your substrate for that time.


    4. Reduce light to 6 hours a day.


    5. Try to increase GH to at least 7, that could be a factor that your plants are missing.


    This is just what I'd do. Maybe someone else has any better advice?
     
  19. Pikez

    Pikez Rotala Killer!
    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,962
    Likes Received:
    1,464
    Local Time:
    7:05 AM
    You gotta get aggressive and manhandle the situation. Don't wait for the tank to self-correct and come to you.


    Water changes - do one every 2 or 3 days. Preferably 80% of bigger. Clean everything manually.


    Algae - this type of algae happens if there is an ammonia spike or if there is way to much organics. Clean filter. Back off on feeding fish, vacuum substrate very lightly to remove gunk. Trim plants aggressively.


    CO2 - if fish are eating less, chances are that you are adding more CO2 than your pH probe is telling you and/or you don't have enough surface agitation to get proper off-gassing and oxygen exchange. CO2 is cheap - get the water surface moving a lot.


    Ferts - with big fish and aquasoil, you don't have ferts issues. Any dosing is icing on the cake. Back off on ferts and focus on CO2 and organics.
     
  20. osmar amaral

    osmar amaral Junior Poster

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    7:05 AM
    Fablau Iron is toxic?
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice