The effects of Current and some new options, considerations for planted aquarist

shoggoth43

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It they're in the rock wall, how would you feasibly add eductors without running into space issues or tearing things out? Just curious. Most of the vortec placements seem to be side to side so I don't know that they'd interfere with your rock wall too much, unless it's on the side but I don't know your tank layout.

I suppose I could go back to tinkering with some PVC fittings again and see if I could get some additional current in the tank without spending too much $$$. I'm thinking just the output stuffed into the end of an open pipe so I don't get much restriction and just hopefully drag some extra water through pointed in the right direction. Then hopefully it's just a bit of adjusting the length of the pipe for a reasonably wide flow without having it be more than a couple of extra inches. I think the commercially available plastic penductors add maybe 4-6 inches of length which can be too long in many of the smaller tanks.

Those vortec pumps are pretty cool though but I do have some concerns about the longevity since the wet side replacements are 75$ or so and I've been reading about 18 month replacement cycles. I don't know if that's due to a mismatch in the placement adding wear and tear or just older units having problems. I guess it's an early adopter thing.

How often are people rebuilding their other pumps? Does anyone know anyone with the vortec pumps to see how often they're changing them out?

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S
 

hani

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Tom, whats your thought about the sea swirl divice? are they helpful in planted tanks
hani
 

Tom Barr

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Link to the Sea Swirl?

I think many cheaper options than the Ecotech MP series can be had certainly, I'm just enjoying the techy part and it's easy to use.
Yes, it seems to really help mix things much better.
I think I can rule out lack of current and also too much current easily with these units.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tom Barr

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Decent, fairly pricy for what you get.
I've seen them at the LFS's around here.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

Tug

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Hi Gilles,
Gilles;43423 said:
How about eductors, did you try them are they any good?
I would be very interested in what you thought about the eductors. A link would be of great help as well.

Best wishes everyone,
 

Gilles

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Wohoow; just bought me an MP40w for 360 USD (that is waaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper then in the Netherlands) Basically i am buying an MP40w (2nd generation) for the price of an MP20 here...
 

DaBub

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You seem happy, those vortec pumps are cool.:cool:

Where did you get your great deal?
 

Tom Barr

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The eductors come with a price, fine if you have loads of extra flow/pressure head etc, but they reduce the flow via a small opening at very high pressure/flow, that pulls the surrounding water into to the eductor and then dissipates the flow to lower pressure and higher flow, but it's not efficient way to drive flow energy wise or equipment wise unless you have plenty of flow to burn(typically not the case if you want more flow). But if you want low pressure flow and have a ton of of high pressure, then it's not bad.

I'd never use them.
I'd go with the boat type of propellers on low pressure high flow wave makers or gerry rig up a dump toilet style wave maker that dumps a nice amount in every 1-2 minutes.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

dutchy

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Gilles;45377 said:
Wohoow; just bought me an MP40w for 360 USD (that is waaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper then in the Netherlands) Basically i am buying an MP40w (2nd generation) for the price of an MP20 here...

Wait until you get the final bill with 19% Value Added Tax, 11% import tax and the sending costs for the part that it travels through Europe. Then it's not so cheap any more. ;)
 

Gilles

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Well we'll see.. he agreed in labeling the invoice with only the shipping charges and a label called "free replacement" or something like that..
 

shoggoth43

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Would one of the overhead manifold designs be a useful option compared to the prop pumps? If you already have the flow but it's in one or two outputs this might let you get more outlets into the tank and directed a bit easier.

-
S
 

Gilles

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wohoow!

NO import taxes ;)
Got the MP40w for approx. 260 euro's

p.s. that is 30 euro's (50$) cheaper then the MP20 here!
 

DukeNJ

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Resurrecting an old thread. What's current experience? Still using vortecs, sea-swirl (seem big and unwieldy).

In some of the pics of Tom's tanks I don't see the vortec heads. Are you still using them Tom, well disguised?
 

1077

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Im often troubled by the suggested flow rates for planted aquariums holding fishes as well as plant's.
Some suggest that for proper CO2 /nutrient dispersion, that up to 10 X the water volume in turnover is required.
I wonder how many fish species would appreciate this much current given that many would never see this much movement in the wild or average aquarium.
Have also become aware that for some,,fishes are almost after thought in planted aquaria, How sad.
I have seen photo's ,video's of tanks with Angelfish for example that fishes were actually listing at near 45 degrees due to flow throughout the tank.
The Flow never seems to be enough according to some to get proper CO2 through out the tank, How bout reducing plant mass ,pruning,trimming more often?
At what point are folks happy with growth? I cannot tell. What is minimum flow rate for desired growth?
 
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Cyclesafe

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Circulation, i.e. distribution of current, must be considered in conjunction with turns. Theortetically, if the entire front or back cross section of a tank were a source of 10X/hr flow, one (or one's fish) would barely notice it.

I have an internal 920 gph pump at zero head (7.6X) supplying a system of under-gravel (aragonite) jets and a spray bar that 24/7 establishes a gentle lengthwise counter-clockwise circular flow in my tank. It takes about 15 seconds for small bits of slighty negatively buoyant paper to be pushed along the surface by the spray bar to the end of the tank where they sink to be pushed back along the bottom of the tank by the ugj's for another 15 seconds to the pump's foam filter. No mulm or pockets of other detritus and my fish can swim up to about two inches from the jets' nozzles or the spray bar.

CO2 mist seems well distributed and my Ideal needle valve's vernier knob is set only about half a "notch" higher what it would have to be in order to maintain CO2 at zero flow (no change of pH while CO2 is on). At lights out / CO2 off, with this circulation, it still takes 6 hours for 80% of the CO2 to be driven away.
 

fjf888

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1077;63122 said:
Im often troubled by the suggested flow rates for planted aquariums holding fishes as well as plant's.
Some suggest that for proper CO2 /nutrient dispersion, that up to 10 X the water volume in turnover is required.
I wonder how many fish species would appreciate this much current given that many would never see this much movement in the wild or average aquarium.
Have also become aware that for some,,fishes are almost after thought in planted aquaria, How sad.
I have seen photo's ,video's of tanks with Angelfish for example that fishes were actually listing at near 45 degrees due to flow throughout the tank.
The Flow never seems to be enough according to some to get proper CO2 through out the tank, How bout reducing plant mass ,pruning,trimming more often?
At what point are folks happy with growth? I cannot tell. What is minimum flow rate for desired growth?

I understand your concerns. However, I think many people have much less after you consider the distance hte water has to travel from sump/filter back to the tank, not to mention the reactors and plumbing twists and turns that also slow things down, while many might think they have 10x flow, at best they may be getting 50% of that. Also a couple of korallas or powerheads spread throughout that add up to 10x volume is going to give you a much different flow than sitcking than say putting a mag 9.5 in the tank and letting it rip.

I do agree that the fish needs should be at least up there with the aesthetics and not an afterthought. I know many here have fish reproduce in their planted high tech tanks, I know I do as well. There are also people that try to make everything a rule of thumb. I had someone tell me in a local forum who was hellbent on putting 4x54 t-5 HO lights (tek's with geissman bulbs) over their tank, that the 2x54 t-5 HO's I was suggesting would only be good for anubias and java fern and maybe hygros.
 

1077

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Yes, I am often poo pooed when suggesting that fishes are normally found in side channels,or creeks,streams, off of main rivers and with exception of seasonal rains, and subsequent runoff, they seldom stay in fast flowing current when slower water is nearby and as such,,general statement's that they don't mind the current's or flows produced in some planted tanks utilizing CO2 injection is a bit misleading.
Also have noticed that as you have noted,, few people expieriment with lower light in CO2 injected tanks and appear to poo poo that notion as well.
They are often quite proud of the 500 to 600 watts they are capable of throwing over their plant's and seldom offer any encouraging words to those running less. MORE is always better seems that way with CO2 also .
 

Jim Miller

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Just as overdoing lights makes little sense to me I'm also planning for less than saturated levels of CO2. I suspect that in accordance with EI principles of non-limiting nutrients that 15-20ppm might be plenty assuming the tank isn't being torched. I'm finding that my 2xT5HO are more than bright enough for a very pleasant display even in our very open and bright family room in the daytime. They are 24" above my substrate when mounted on the legs that Catalina provided.

In fact I may order a couple of 6500K T5NO lamps to see how that looks once I get everthing else done (including taxes....ugh). The Catalina fixture has a separate ballast for each bulb and I found that they are perfectly happy driving a T5NO that I got from HD at the proper level.

10x was a complete tornado in my tank when I tried it two days ago. I posted details in my tank thread. I'm going for a setup that will provide 5-6x max and can be throttled down from there.

jim
 
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