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The Earth is Flat - Part II

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by Greg Watson, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. Greg Watson

    Greg Watson Administrator
    Staff Member Administrator

    Jan 23, 2005
    Likes Received:
    Well the Earth is Flat Theorist (including their scientists) are out ... and boy am I glad that we don't have Sound enabled on the forums here ...

    Or otherwise ...

    >>I'm sorry if I implied it was the end of the world.
    >>I didn't mean to frighten you.

    It's The End Of The World As He Knows IT!
    It's The End of the world as he Knows it ...
    It's The End of the world as he knows it ... and I feel fine

    ... good thing you don't have to listen to me sing the words ...

    And for anyone interested in the lyrics ... I think its by REM and here they are:

  2. brad

    brad Prolific Poster

    Aug 2, 2005
    Likes Received:
    Re: The Earth is Flat - Part II

    Gee, could you see it coming? :)

    It`s far too technical for me, but I have to laugh when people turn it into a practicality issue rather than scientific issue. just because it doesn`t suite you aquascape doesn`t mean it doesn`t work. I follow it as much as I can but I have to admit I get rather lost. I`m happy with my reactor anyway so I have no intention to change.

    All I have to say is good luck Tom, there were plenty of people waiting for this report. :cool:
  3. reiverix

    reiverix Lifetime Members
    Lifetime Member

    Jan 29, 2005
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    Re: The Earth is Flat - Part II

    Seems derogatory to associate those who disagree with Tom and The Earth is Flat Theorists. In this day, we would consider someone that believes the earth to be flat a total moron. I'm not sure people that don't accept misted Co2 are necessarily in the same league. Sounds kind of arrogant to try to toss them together to discredit them.

    For people to not accept this right off hand isn't necessarily something to poke fun at and to start this as a preemptive strike before the report is even published seems more like a setup than a warning.

    I dunno. Just doesn't feel right in a place like this: reputable and professional. Tom's helped me a lot and will probably continue to do so. He may be right about this, I dunno. I haven't tested it because I'm happy with my external reactor. Greg has helped me with ferts too. I like both guys and they both know more about planted aquaria than me. But I disagree with this poking.
  4. Greg Watson

    Greg Watson Administrator
    Staff Member Administrator

    Jan 23, 2005
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    Re: The Earth is Flat - Part II

    Ranadom ... very very very fair question ... but it really begs a question because when you say "seems" you ask a question ...

    A little while back, I posted a thread titled The Earth Is Flat and simply commented about what types of reactions we could expect ...

    There are some people that are truly interested in a legitimate discussion and dialogue ... and there is nothing wrong with people who truly disagree ...

    For example, Tom and I are often on absoute opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to political, moral, and ethical "interpretations" of intent ... so in that context, I disagree with Tom frequently ...

    But ... when Tom and I disagree ... we will both disagree with a VERY OPEN MIND ...

    And that is a very important distinction ...

    I joked earlier about how we would see a few people misapply their quote/unquote scientific understanding and essentially say the world is flat ...

    So when in one day I see people write an analogy about "It's The End Of The World" and then make up an analogy about circular logic, you can see how I was amused ... and since I love music, the REM song immediately came to mind and I loved it ...

    Tom loves legitimate honest debate and discussion ...

    But back to your question ... it "seems" like it is derogatory ... Tom loves honest debate, honest inquiries, and honest discussion ... so do I ...

    But sometimes there are those that are not interested in scientific debate or want to insist that everyone see the world only in their narrow definition of their interpretation of things ... i.e. what I jokingly call the Flat Earth Society ... because often they are unwilling to consider a bigger picture than their understanding or are insistent that everyone else see things only their way ...

    So if I joke about the Flat Earth Society ... It is only in the context of those that are not interested in objective scientific discourse or those that are insistent that everyone else see things only their way ...

    You and I are welcome to disagree with Tom every single day of the week ... I can guarantee you that there are things that Tom and I will disagree on until the day each of us die ... but I am not going to be so:

    • Narrow minded as to believe that Tom has to change his mind ...
    • Narrow minded as to believe that Tom must publically state that he believes whatever it is that I am proclaiming ...
    • or Narrow minded as to believe that Tom and the rest of the world have to conform to my views ... ...

    And honestly, how boring would the world be if everyone believed only what I believe? !!!!!!

    So ... jokingly, you can tell a Flat Earth Society member by someone who is offended by the fact that Tom won't conform to their Flat Earth Society viewpoints ... and then they are personally offended by the fact that they can't win that argument and will chase him around trying to demand that he publicly change his mind ... or start to change the arguments into personal attacks ...

    Actually ... this last one is a good example of the scientist in the Flat Earth Society becoming religious zelots in their society ...

    So when you see this type of behavior ... and we have seen a little of it (not as much as I expected ) ... you just have to get a good laugh ...

    And in this case ... I think that the REM song is absolutely hilarious ...

    There is nothing derogatory about it ... certainly not towards people who simply disagree with Tom as you put it ...

    Of course ... if there is anything derogatory about simply disagreeing with Tom - well then, I just applied that to myself ...

    And I am as proud of disagreeing with Tom as I am proud to be associated with one of the honestly most caring individuals I have ever met ...

    Of course ... all of that is just my opinion ... I love plants ... I love my plant accessories (fish) ...

    And there was nothing preemptive about it ... Tom's been discussing this in public for a month now ... initially to a lot of skepticism - including my own ... and more than one member privately sent me quite a few questions asking for an "english" interpretation of what Tom was saying ...

    I look at it this way ... EI is all about providing a mechanism and process to make sure that our plants get all of the nutrients that they need ... can it be done at much lower levels? Sure it can ... I can choose to run a very lean tank and be very successful ...

    I look at CO2 misting as EI for CO2 ... it provides a mechanism and process to make sure that our plants get all of the nutrients that they need ... can it be done at much lower levels? Sure it can ... I can choose to run a very lean tank and be very successful ...

    But I have to understand the consequences of those choices ...

  5. unirdna

    unirdna Junior Poster

    Sep 18, 2005
    Likes Received:
    A politician's response

    An unapologetic, elusive response, involving a lot of effort to preserve character. I subscribed to this forum in hopes of reading methods, But the majority of what I found within the forums is contemptuous metaphor; inititated by, of all people, the moderators.

    "If you will think about what you ought to do for other people, your character will take care of itself. Character is a by-product, and any man who devotes himself to its cultivation in his own case will become a selfish prig."
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator Social Group Admin

    Jan 23, 2005
    Likes Received:
    Re: The Earth is Flat - Part II

    I think Greg is wrong:)

    It is true, Greg and I do disagree often.
    I disagree with myself also.

    I do not think folks that disagree with me are flat earthers, hardly.

    Folks have disagreed with me for a very long time about many things.
    That disagreement has brought many ideas to the table and offered feedback, both as a professional's and the layman's point of view.

    What I do hope is that those disagree will go out and try to figure out what is occuring. Have some positive input, play good cop bad cop, but not take things so personal.

    Folks claimed elevated K+ cause stunting due to Ca blocking, excess PO4 causes algae, folks have claimed many things over the years. I disagreed, and went about trying to figure it out.
    To that end, I have managed to figure out a fair amount.

    I see things and try and find a way to explain it. And I disagree with myself as well as others at times.

    I've had a number of folks come and want me to do these huge research projects (for free and in all the spare time I do not have) for them to answer some question they have. Some expect the answer immediately.

    Let me tell you, I disagree with them and many other folks also.
    So to that end, many might say I am a flat earther:) Won't be the first and won't be the last.

    But I have been right over time and tried some things many folks have not and it has helped the hobby, improved the hobby overall/grow weeds much better.

    I've suggested testing much like PPS in the past and switched.
    I thought higher O2 levels may kill algae(nope). I thought NO3 limiting worked for controlling algae(nope).

    Point is, you gotta try.
    Even if Greg is wrong:)

    Tom Barr

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