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Tank Gilles: Log 1

Discussion in 'Algae Control' started by Gilles, May 13, 2009.

  1. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Hi guys, the blue algue is gone after a blackout which lasted for 9 days. That is about 2 months ago now. Right now i am having some issues with green (hair) algue for which i need some help.

    I am almost sure it is a filtration or nutrient issue. Some plants suffer from the algue, some not. Upping the flourish excel does not help a bit.

    Maybe i have to much light, but unfortunately i missed out on the group buy for the PAR meter so i can't measure my uMol levels...

    Tonight i'll post some pics with my water parameters.
     
  2. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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  3. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Have you cleaned the filters good recently and then kept them that way?
    Excel will not cause this to die. It will help the plants do better.

    Try larger % water changes and fluffing the plants good each time you do a water change. Deep vacuum say 20% of the gravel each water change and replant, carefully trimming. That will take about 1 month, do not try and do it all in one day etc.

    Clean the CO2 good also.

    Next reduce the light intensity. I'd cut it by about 1/2 to 1/3 if possible.
    This will make any CO2/nutrient issue much more manageable.

    Realize nutrient issues are rather simple to rule out with some good water changes and dosing thereafter, this can be done for a few weeks.

    That tells you if it's really a nutrient issue or not (limitation/deficiency).
    Then if not......you look at CO2. Current, good trimming of plants etc.

    I've had this same algae in a large tank that came back a few times.
    I needed to prune and clean the filters more often and had too much light.
    I also added some more Activated Carbon, algae eaters etc.

    Main things were reduced light, cleaning, better trimming/better flow.
    Your plants are not even really growing that fast before the algae covers them.

    More light = more algae.

    So try these suggestions. Add Excel daily and adjust CO2 after you clean and trim.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  5. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    * I just did a 200l water change on my 500l tank. I added 50grams Mineral Salt to the pure osmosis change, so that would give me a KH of 3 on the changed water. I also added 1tbs of KH2SO4 for the first time.
    * I removed all the dirty filter cloth. Now i have brand new white wool (how do you call it?).
    * I rinsed my Seachem Matrix with aquarium water (i have 1L in my sump).
    * Next week i'll receive Seachem Purigen with which Yme had good results.

    That is all the filtration i have.

    I changed the lights from the maximum setting of 80% to a maximum of 40%.

    The weird thing was when i shut off my pump all my Xiphophorus Helleri went to the surface and started gasping. Besides 8 from these, i also have a group of 15 Trigonostigma heteromorpha.

    I am planning on switch those since they eat every shrimp i put in the tank :) Maybe i go for a big group Hemigrammus bleheri. This friday i add 14 more Botio sidhtimunki so my group will be 25 ;) :)
     
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Those species of Botia do not eat Amano shrimp.
    Nor will H bleheri(Rummy nose).

    I have some nice Brass tetras which are very interesting.

    I would suggest adding about 1 shrimp per 4 liter.
    This number will slowly drop over time but by then the algae should be in check.

    The other option is a 3 day black out to kill the algae that is there right now.

    Turn CO2 off and lights etc, doa large water change, add Excel or Easy Carb, do this again 24 hours later.

    Then connect CO2 and lights back on after the 3rd day.

    This should kill off 90% of what is there.

    Since you can reduce the light, I'd keep doing that.

    Still do the the above advice.

    Yes, some fish will eat every shrimp you add.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  7. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Does H2HO work? Dutch fora report I have an algue which is sensible to this.
     
  8. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Yes, but easy carb is better, adds some CO2 basically.
    And is more toxic to algae vs plants, H2O2 is pretty broad spectrum.

    I think Easy carb is a better option and has better testing etc.

    Regards,
    tom barr
     
  9. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    When i came back from vacation;

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Trimming started, but look at my roots!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    After trimming:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Few days later:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Do you think that Crypt parvula on the right side (next to the Downoi) and Blyxa japonica on the far left would look nicer and be easier plants to manage perhaps than the thinner looking species? Perhaps it's after the trim they look that way, but those 2 plants would maintain the same/better contrast and be nice and thick.

    You want that massive root growth also.
    I'd not trim more than say 1/3 of the tank each week.

    Keep the filter clean, keep the light going high and the good CO2.
    You should be able to back off the Easy Carbo later as the tank settles in.
    Check the sump and overflow to reduce CO2 loss also

    Your tank is very much like my own as well as YME's.
    I have a 120 cm x 60 cm x 60cm, with an overflow.
    I almost chose to add cork to the walls to give it that old school Dutch feel.

    I also have T5 lights.
    The biggest issues have been , CO2/CO2 loss.
    Nutrients have played virtually no role. I have ADA AS in the tank also, so that adds even more nutrients and offers flexibility with dosing.

    I have green dust algae for a few months until I fixed the CO2.
    I had a massive no# of fish so I focused on their response rather than algae.
    Once I was certain they where fine, the and had enough CO2, the tank suddenly had no algae. The algae that was there, slowly died off, GDA died fast, most green algae will die quickly, where as BBA will linger sometimes for several weeks, or a months even.
    BBA can be trimmed at the aquarists own pace since no new growth is occuring.

    Spirogryra outbreaks have caused some issues in new/redone aquarium for a local friend. Blackouts and proper CO2 also took care of these.

    Easy carbo I think should be treated more as temporary tool to fix an existing issues while good CO2 is slowly adjusted with good observation of fish and plants.

    I think many adjust their CO2 too fast without watching the effects.
    The Excel or Easy Carbo allow the aquarist to restore the plants and kill some algae while doing this and not try and adjust things too fast.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  13. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Bah! The algae is back with a vengeance. I really have no hope left to kill this algae. My water conditions are a lot better then before;
    PH: 6.2
    KH: 2.5
    GH: 3
    NO3: 10-15
    PO4: 0.5

    Anybody has an idea on what the best strategy is? My guess is to up the PO4 to about 1-1.5 but i am not sure... Here are some pics:



    Ludwigia Glandulosa:

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Rotala walichi:

    [​IMG]



    Eustralis stellata:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    Please note how the algae starts at the sides and moves to inside the leaves. It is not easily rubbed off and does not smell. My lights are on for about 12 hours. I dose PMDD based solution on a normal basis (14ml/day) Since my tank is 125 gallon and my sump is 40, i dose based on this article: Practical PMDD Information

    Fishload:
    - 35 corydora sterbai
    - 30 japonica shrimp
    - 8 orange Xiphophorus helleri
    - 5 oto's
    - 18 carnegiella strigata

    Filtration:
    - Basic white cloth & 1 liter Seachem matrix

    CO2:
    - Dirty aqua medic reactor.
     
  15. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    I would clean the reactor for sure if it is dirty. Replace any kinked lines, etc. Make sure it works optimally..

    Can you please elaborate on your filtration and co2 setups? I know you have a sump? How often do you change/rinse the filter floss in the filter? Is your sump sealed as Tom suggests? Is there more than a 1" drop in your oveflow? A higher drop will result in more c02 loss.

    12 hours of light is too much and can be cut back to 8-10. That will help. Turn on the c02 about 90 PRIOR to lights on and turn off the c02 about 30 minutes PRIOR to lights out.

    This will help the c02 levels a bit before the lights come on. You may also want to review your outlet flow to the tank. Many have used loc-line to create better patterns.....a powerhead may also be needed.

    Tanks over 100 gallons require more flow, flitration, etc than we would like to think. It is very easy to be undersized in an area such as flow or c02, except for light lol

    I had many of the same issues as you in my 180 until my filtration and c02 diffusion were improved.

    Following EI here using dry ferts is quick and easy and an excellent method of ruling out many macro/micro deficiencis.

    I would look to c02, flow, and filtration as your primary issues. Reduce that light :)

    As Tom suggests, increase the c02 slowly over several weeks and take time between each adjustment to monitor any changes in fish and plant health. It is very easy to gas fish if you are not careful............

    You should see new growth with no new algae and the current algae should start to diminish. These are signs that things are getting better. Many water changes will not hurt either................

    Hope this helps.

    Nice tank!
     
  16. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Hey there;

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have 3 pipes in the overflow chamber;
    C) Outlet located just below the comb.
    D) Main outtake; bottom of the overflow chamber.

    Through this pipe (C), the water just drips. This means i have used a crane to limit the ammount of water that goes through the bottom pipe (D). This means that the water rises just a little bit above the emergency outtake (C) which flows unrestricted to my sump. This way, i have a noiseless overflow, since the main outtake is so low in the overflow chamber. Therefore almost no degassing and no CO2 loss.

    [​IMG]

    E) Outlet from bottom of the tank using an elbow to just above the water level in the overflow box but below the water level in the aquarium. Gravity forces the tank water through this pipe since it is located lower then the aquarium level. This way, i have approx. 50% from the bottom and 50% from the top (skimming).

    The water level in the overflow chamber is about 0,5" below the comb, thus i don't think it is degassing that much.


    [​IMG]

    Flow levels in my tank. See next pic for construction on how i made my pipes vanish.
     
  17. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    Left side;
    [​IMG]

    Right side;
    [​IMG]

    Backdrop (DIY Epoxy):
    [​IMG]

    CO2 setup in sump:
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Gilles

    Gilles Lifetime Members
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    I reduced my lights to a max. of 60%.
     
  19. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    Good move, Gilles. Thanks to Tom and Vaughn I reduced my light by 40% (4 tubes to 2 tubes) and increased the flow. The difference is incredible. Algae growth has reduced by 90%, with no noticeable difference in plant growth.

    All of that in 2 weeks time.

    regards,
    Dutchy
     
  20. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Also, try an 8 hour photoperoid, not 12 hours.

    That is part of it as well.
    I know that algae well, have seen in one aquarium I cared for.
    Never survives at my home however.

    I think good cleaning, good CO2, and less light(duration and intensity) are the reasons.

    Excel or Easy Carbo will not solve it, but can help a little.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
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