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Switch to Mazzei Plan

Discussion in 'CO2 Enrichment' started by Gerryd, Jun 29, 2008.

  1. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Okay, so I am going to switch to a mazzei 584 for my 180....

    Based on all of the many threads I have read (over and over) on this subject, this is what I will use as hardware and what I expect to happen. Also some things I will use as benchmarks.

    I would appreciate any feedback:

    Flow:

    I plan to use a 500 gph Mag drive that will sit in the sump to drive the Mazzei. The output of the pump will flow through gently curving flex pipe to a ball valve (to throttle the flow to the venturi as necessary) which will be connected to the Mazzei. The OUTPUT from the Mazzei will flow through more flex hose to the INPUT sponge of my 1800 gph Mag drive that then delivers to the twin rtank returns.

    The c02 line will attach as directly as possible from my regulator to the Mazzei with a check valve between the c02 and the mazzei.

    Basically, I will switch my AM1000 reactor with venturi mod for a Mazzei and the ball valve.

    Benchmarks:

    I can currently get my drop checkers (2) to green or yellow but I really have to pour in the c02 to do so, and it is not easy to keep it this way.

    My ph is 7.1 (per meter) when c02 first comes on, and green DC =6.7 and yellow is 6.5 or less. However, the fish never showed any stress at this level for the day or two I experimented with higher c02 before I turned it back down.

    So, I have read to expect that a mazzei with a 500 gph pump can expect to lower PH by a full point within 15-30 minutes on this size tank.

    I can expect then and will watch for a drop from my starting point of 7.1 to 6.1 within 30 minutes if I am not careful, since my target is 6.5 or so.

    I also expect to greatly decrease the amount of c02 I am feeding in to the mazzei.

    Questions (of course):

    1. Does this seem like an adequate installation and setup?

    2. I can use a smaller or large pump, but figured the ball valve would serve as well.

    3. Can I run the venturi pump all the time, but not c02 24/7. I do this currently with my reactor, so the reactor pump is always running.....

    I will use the pearling, ph, etc I get now as benchmarks so I don't gas the fish and to set limits.

    It will be interesting to see if a mazzei will be the better answer for my setup......

    Thanks in advance for any responses.


    P.S. I hope (expect) the mazzei can help me to stabilize my c02 levels.
     
  2. Generals

    Generals Prolific Poster

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    hi gerryd,
    i see you have experimented eventually to the mazzei...
    just one question though, i always hear the name mazzei but i dont know what that is...
    can you please explain what that is? or in whatever way you can to help me understand more?
    thanks=)
     
  3. mrkookm

    mrkookm Guest

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    Several topics are available that discusses in length the questions you are asking. If more info is needed, click on the search button at the top of the page and in the drop down type in ' Mazzei '.

    Here is a few that I found on what is, how to use, where to buy and how to install a Mazzei Injector

    Mazzei injector position vs back pressure

    Misting with a Mazzei - Questions and Observations

    Can I adapt a Mazzei to my setup?

    How to choose mazzei injector?
     
  4. Generals

    Generals Prolific Poster

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    thanks mrkookm... ill take a look at some of those threads=)
     
  5. rusticitas

    rusticitas Lifetime Charter Member
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    Which type of injector?

    On the Ryan Herco web site, on the page listing the Mazzei Injectors, they list "0584 PVDF NAT - LQD INJ 3/4"MT PVDF NAT" ($64) as well as "0584 - MAZZEI LQD INJ 3/4" PVDF BLK" ($42).

    What the heck is the difference, other than $22 more for "NAT" whatever that is? (I am assuming that "BLK" means black...

    -Jason
     
  6. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Jason.

    Could it denote Natural as in a different color than the basic black?

    Seems like a lot more for diff color but I have seen stranger things.

    I placed an order with them this week and ordered this one:

    Qty Product # Description UOM Price Extended
    1 6030.030 LQD INJ 3/4" MT BLK GRPP MODEL 0584 EA 34.5000 34.50

    I see the product you refer to is 6031.035 and the price is more. Are they the same thing or close?

    I hope I ordered the right thing. Hopefully will get delivered soon so I can see.......

    I think I will call them tomorrow if I get a chance and will report on any answers they may provide.
     
  7. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Jason,

    I sent an e-mail to my sales rep at Ryan Hercos and here is the reply:

    So, looks like I was right (for once) about the NAT denoting color.

    So, looks like the one I ordered is good, but not as corrosive resistant, which I feel pretty sure is not an issue for us lol

    The one you are looking at seems to be more corrosive resistant and thus costs more........

    Mine was delivered just now and I will install this weekend!

    Off to hardware store(s) for fittings...........

    Will let you know.

    Hope this helps.
     
  8. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Update - Mazzei Install

    Hey all,

    So I installed the Mazzei as detailed above and is working GREAT.

    I should have done this ages ago. For my setup at least, it is the best fit so far of a c02 injection method. It may BE the answer to my prayers lol

    WOW.

    I can already see more/better pearling after just 45 minutes......PH drop is also more responsive to increased bps.

    Very fine mist generated.

    So, will watch/adjust over the weekend and then do final placement inside the cabinet.

    As an FYI, I got ALL the fittings, ball valve, etc at the LFS. Probably paid more but well worth the one stop shopping. Came home with everything I needed and installed in 10-15 minutes.

    So recommend to your LFS to carry these plumbing supplies/fittings if they don't.

    Thanks for hanging in there with me.......
     
  9. mrkookm

    mrkookm Guest

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    This was already answered here on post 16 but I guess confirmation was still needed. Thanks for the getting the details for us Gerryd.

    It's good to hear the Mazzei worked out for you! I wasn't expecting anything less but good to hear regardless :)
     
  10. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Thanks mrkookm.......

    Since the DIY needle wheel did not work well for me and I have struggled so much with c02 with my current setup (AM1000 mod), I wasn't that sure it would work so well or easily for me!

    Now the question is do I plug it inline to the main 1800 gph pump or leave it as is?????

    Thanks
     
  11. Tim McRae

    Tim McRae Junior Poster

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  12. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Tim,

    Well mine was 34.50 so a little less but both are good prices. I have seen these for 45-75 for the same product!


    Update and observations.

    1. My mag drive 500 I think is inadequate for the size tank and Mazzei (584). At a bps of 5-10, I get a very fine mist that can be seen, but you have to get close. However, this leaves my drop checker at blue.

    If I go a higher bps, the mist is very visible and made of many larger bubbles. Still small, but definitely much bigger. Cloud all over the tank is clear to see.

    I think a 1000 gph pump or > would serve me better for this Mazzei and my application.

    2. I also found out that my main 1800 gph pump also seems inadequate. I recently added a split and loc line to each return so I now have 4 nozzles. While this gives better flow control, by following the nice mist, I can now see that the distance from each nozzle is much less than before the split. Like using a dye......

    I probably need a 2400 or > for my tank. I added a Koralia 1 and a Rio 400 and a tiny Koralia to help move the mist around and it helps.

    But I feel that one bigger pump would eliminate the smaller pumps.

    3. The mazzei IS very responsive and can do wonders. I have hung around all day to adjust, and I had one point where the fish were near the surface anf gulping a bit (that had NEVER happened before), so I immediately turned the bps down and all was better within 30 minutes. Small increases in c02 amount can quickly drop the PH .1 within a few minutes.

    I plan to monitor CLOSELY for the next couple of days until the DC shows nice color placed randomly.

    I recommend to anyone using a Mazzei for the first time to really keep an eye on it for at least 3-7 days to make sure all is well with your setup. They are very powerful and can quickly overdose your fish.

    I lost my last SAE last night and while he seemed okay, I guess he was affected by the heavy at one point saturation and succumbed over night.

    4. At least for me, I still need a faster bps around 30-40 at a guess. Just placing the end of the c02 into a glass of water, I can see a steady stream of bubbles. At this rate, my PH is 6.7 but DC are still blue. I will have a better feel after a week or so, but as currently setup, there is now way that 5-10 bps will get it done for me.

    5. When testing the bps as per #4, the Mazzei was running and was injecting air to the system. Contrary to one other's experience that I read about, there was good suction and no water at all came out of the intake port. I guess this means at least that the 500 gph pump created sufficient pressure to drive the Mazzei.

    6. If switching to a Mazzei it is a good idea to record your current bps, DC color, PH, etc to set some benchmarks. I don't think that my eventual PH level will be as low with the reactor setup, as I think the Mazzei is more efficient. So am using as a guide, but not expecting that my results will equate with a different diffusion method. This was a big help for #2 as the PH with the Mazzei was 6.4 when the fish were in distress, but with the reactor method this same PH did NOT cause this same distress, and I had LESS current/flow than I do now.

    The fact that I was familiar with what I could accomplish BEFORE, it has been easier to see how the new system works in comparison and to adjust more easily.


    Thanks.
     
  13. Tim McRae

    Tim McRae Junior Poster

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    Where did you find it for that price?
     
  14. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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