Sump and CPR Overview

[Gerryd]

Hi all,

A few folks have asked here on the forum or via youtube that I post some video showing my sump and the basic operation.

The orange cat helper is fascinated by the sump and sits in front of it for hours. No fish or even snails in there, but I guess he is hopeful. The black one snored through the entire event..

So, without further ado, here is the result taken just this morning.


[video=youtube;RnBxgeXPlkQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnBxgeXPlkQ&feature=plcp[/video]

 

[mike]

Gerry,

Very well done, I will also be posting my overflow in action soon. It's my first overflow but as you said, it is quite simple and many of the worries I had about overflow were not a problem with the proper information.

So I take it you no longer use a canister filter? Do you find you are still able to maintain crystal clear water with just the overflow? Also, how fast does your co2 get to your target level with the method you are using?

Thank you

Mike

 

[Gerryd]

Gerry,

Very well done, I will also be posting my overflow in action soon. It's my first overflow but as you said, it is quite simple and many of the worries I had about overflow were not a problem with the proper information.

So I take it you no longer use a canister filter? Do you find you are still able to maintain crystal clear water with just the overflow? Also, how fast does your co2 get to your target level with the method you are using?

Thank you

Mike

Hi Mike,

Thanks, I appreciate it. No canister any longer, but I have a mag 350 for adhoc use for polishing but is not in use atm.

Well, does the water seem clear to you? Can't really speak to the speed of c02 and target range as I no longer measure via ph or drop checker.

That said, c02 comes on approx 90 prior to the higher/highest light levels. The ATI allows me to ramp up light while c02 is also ramping up.

Will be good to post your overflow experiences as well. Is how we all learn..

 

[Gerryd]

All,

I have to do this, but you can purchase a large plastic/rubbermaid container and sit the sump INSIDE of this. That will at least catch a few gallons of water should it overflow or leak. They sell them that are only 4-6" high or so. So, drain the sump and lift it while sliding the container underneath. Will take two as it is awkward.

Or, they sell large cat litter trays that would serve the same purpose. Mechanic oil drain pan, etc.

I will post a pic/video when I get one and show you what I mean...

 

[gsjmia]

Gerry, good video. All the available research sometimes doesn't accomplish what a first hand view will reveal.

You touched on your Co2 method, maybe you could elaborate on that and do a separate video.

Do you aim the output of the NW at the intake of the Mag-Sump pump or do you just let it exhaust into the general reservoir water?

Is that a 10lb Co2 tank? How long does it last you?

 

[Gerryd]

Gerry, good video. All the available research sometimes doesn't accomplish what a first hand view will reveal.

You touched on your Co2 method, maybe you could elaborate on that and do a separate video.

Do you aim the output of the NW at the intake of the Mag-Sump pump or do you just let it exhaust into the general reservoir water?

Is that a 10lb Co2 tank? How long does it last you?

Hi and thanks...I can do a c02/NW video....

It is 'aimed' at the main sump pump but is not right against it..More generally into the reservoir but is not that big either...

Yep, 10 lb aluminum. Approx 6 weeks at the current usage rate.

 

[mike]

Hi Gerry,

I was looking again at how you split your ¾ inch return again. I want to split my returns on both my Mag 1800 and 9.5. As it stands my 1800 is giving me about 1100 GPH through 1 ¾ inch return, do you think by splitting it like you have done I’ll lose a lot of flow? How much flow do you get?

I also want to split my 9.5 but I’m afraid that one already has very little flow. Right now I get less than 400gph. It has a needle wheel impeller for my CO2. I’m kind of hoping that my attaching the 2inch Y like you did it will also help to dissolve some of the CO2 before it gets to the tank, I’m worried I’ll lose too much flow.

Mike

 

[Gerryd]

Hi Gerry,

I was looking again at how you split your ¾ inch return again. I want to split my returns on both my Mag 1800 and 9.5. As it stands my 1800 is giving me about 1100 GPH through 1 ¾ inch return, do you think by splitting it like you have done I’ll lose a lot of flow? How much flow do you get?

I also want to split my 9.5 but I’m afraid that one already has very little flow. Right now I get less than 400gph. It has a needle wheel impeller for my CO2. I’m kind of hoping that my attaching the 2inch Y like you did it will also help to dissolve some of the CO2 before it gets to the tank, I’m worried I’ll lose too much flow.

Mike

Mike,

By splitting the mag 18 you will get MORE flow not less. A 3/4 tube can only flow so much water. By using the large 2" wye more water is available to push through the twin 3/4 tubes.... so I get MORE flow, but at a REDUCED velocity perhaps....

A NW will NOT IME flow as well as a normal impeller powerhead so you need to remember that. Like canisters and flow rates Like your fx5 for example lol

I would simply add the nw pump to discharge into the sump and then redo your mag 18 to twin outlets. Then no need for all the lines and splits....

Hope this helps.

 

[Gilles]

Hey Gerry,

What a lot of noise do the CPRs make! Why not extend the intake tube (inside the CPR) of the right intake higher? This way the water level in your CPR would rise and only drip over the second intake. This way it will be dead silent and not degass so much CO2...? I don't know if it works for your particular setup but you might try this

 

[Dutch]

Hey Gerry,

What a lot of noise do the CPRs make! Why not extend the intake tube (inside the CPR) of the right intake higher? This way the water level in your CPR would rise and only drip over the second intake. This way it will be dead silent and not degass so much CO2...? I don't know if it works for your particular setup but you might try this

Was just going to suggest this same idea (herbie style overflow?). Tom gave me the idea to try and it is now dead quite:

[video=youtube;oZEJIbzEWjY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZEJIbzEWjY[/video]

 

[Tom Barr]

Dutch even sealed up the overflow to conserve and save CO2.

 

[Gerryd]

Hi all,

Never let it be said that I will not try things.....I used a approx 5" section of flex hose (all I had laying around) to extend the one standpipe in the overflow. I then adjusted the gate valves a bit. The water level in the overflow rose and the one lower standpipe now takes the entire flow it seems, and the second stays above water, I guess as this is now the safety standpipe as I only have two and not 3 per Herbie specs?

Anyhoo the water flow seems similar to my eye (no visible flow loss) and is very quiet indeed. This is now a drawback however as I have been trained now to hear the overflow and know that water is flowing Even now typing in the next room I keep getting up to ensure it did not overflow the sump or overflow or stop working lol So, this will also be an adjustment period. But, should be a nice adjustment....I really can't believe the difference...Just want to ensure I do not lose flow...

That said, I am going away later this evening till tomorrow night, so will revert back as it was until I return. If this has an impact on c02, which it may, I want to be around for it. Bad idea to make changes and then go away.....

I will investigate sealing the overflow but may not need to do so...things seem fine now and do not want to make too many simultaneous changes...

So, will swap Monday morning and go from there.

While I was playing around, I dropped the CPR air intake tubing right down the standpipe so will have to R&R that hose to retrieve it

Thanks!

 

[Gerryd]

Hey Gerry,

What a lot of noise do the CPRs make! Why not extend the intake tube (inside the CPR) of the right intake higher? This way the water level in your CPR would rise and only drip over the second intake. This way it will be dead silent and not degass so much CO2...? I don't know if it works for your particular setup but you might try this

Tried and worked! Thanks!!!!

 

[Gerryd]

Was just going to suggest this same idea (herbie style overflow?). Tom gave me the idea to try and it is now dead quite:

Hi and thanks for posting the video. That helped a lot!!!!!

I did as you and Gilles suggested (and others) and it seems to work fine.

 

[Dutch]

Yup, I could not believe how quite it was either, no more gurgling, no more CO2 degassing.
I have the chamber sealed up, but I also have a vent tube going back into my sealed sump to break the siphon (the line on top). Not sure this is needed.
Not sure on the CPR's rated flow, but i seem to remember somewhere on this site where a 1 inch ID tubing could handle ~1200 gallons/hr when used as a full-siphon drain? The second drain with the tubing extension will act as your "spill over", just don't make the extension too high as I found out your tank water level tends to match the water level in your overflow box.
Also I'm no expert here but I think the herbie style overflow is 2 drains while the bean animal is 3? I may be wrong.
And yes, you will notice a decrease in CO2 usage, so you will want to monitor and adjust accordingly since you are no longer mixing air in your drain lines.

Love your tank btw! I wonder if the cat notices the noise is gone?

 

[jart]

I for one found your video extremely informative. Thanks for posting it.

I am curious about your outflow tubing... in the video it looks like it is attached to the back of your tank. Are those simply suction cups?

Nice cat as well. Plus I like your tank. I've followed your build thread for quite some time.

 

[Tom Barr]

Yup, I could not believe how quite it was either, no more gurgling, no more CO2 degassing.
I have the chamber sealed up, but I also have a vent tube going back into my sealed sump to break the siphon (the line on top). Not sure this is needed.
Not sure on the CPR's rated flow, but i seem to remember somewhere on this site where a 1 inch ID tubing could handle ~1200 gallons/hr when used as a full-siphon drain? The second drain with the tubing extension will act as your "spill over", just don't make the extension too high as I found out your tank water level tends to match the water level in your overflow box.
Also I'm no expert here but I think the herbie style overflow is 2 drains while the bean animal is 3? I may be wrong.
And yes, you will notice a decrease in CO2 usage, so you will want to monitor and adjust accordingly since you are no longer mixing air in your drain lines.

Love your tank btw! I wonder if the cat notices the noise is gone?

Dutch, a small flex air line, or perhaps 3/8" hose inside the drain pipe, going from the overflow box, to the sump below would do the same thing.
I think you'll have more degassing inside the sump, so that will vent the degassed cO2 back up to the prefilter, so if the prefilter is not sealed, you are SOL.
The flux of CO2 between the two locations will favor from high concentration=> to lower concentration. So without a sealed prefilter, this is a loser.

A simple seal able lid is required to get in/out of the prefilter.
We cannot seal the weir box itself, but the prefilter section where the drain pipe is and the sponge prefilter, we sure can.
Tanks with built in over flows cannot do this however. Maybe they can, but I have not thought much about it yet.

 

[Tom Barr]

Also I'm no expert here but I think the herbie style overflow is 2 drains while the bean animal is 3? I may be wrong.

Yes, Herb's bean animal has 3, one a full blast 100% flow, then a 2# is slight flow, 3 is the OH CRAP! emergency. The #3 also acts like the venting from the sump, back to the prefilter box also.

Note: you can add a 3rd drain on the side of the pre filter. Drill a hole and simply put a 1/2 sch 40 bulk head. then run that down into the sump top and drill another bulk head hole there and connect.
You do not need to add the 3rd bulk head on the bottom of the prefilter.

 

[Gerryd]

I for one found your video extremely informative. Thanks for posting it.

I am curious about your outflow tubing... in the video it looks like it is attached to the back of your tank. Are those simply suction cups?

Nice cat as well. Plus I like your tank. I've followed your build thread for quite some time.

Hi, You are very welcome... It was fun to do! I plan to do one for the c02 config as well as someone has asked...Yes, those are the suction cups that came with the twin eheim canisters....they fit fine for the 3/4 tubing! Thanks the cat has a smaller brother...Appreciate you following such a long build thread....

 

[muanis]

Bumped into this more than 10 years later and was watching the video, leaving the link here so others can find it more easily