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Stunted plants.

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by alexraven, Feb 27, 2009.

  1. alexraven

    alexraven Junior Poster

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    I have a 79G heavily planted tank, and no complains, it looks fine . Vibrant colors and generally healthy plants.
    But some of my plants show some symptoms of deficiency and I cant find out what is missing . Especially Rotala macrandra and Proserpinaca palustris suffer the most, but also Rotala rotundifolia and Rotala green are stunted lately.
    It is only 3-4 weeks now that I changed fertilizers and instead of Seachem series I follow a method similar to E.I. except that I use fleet enema for PO4 and K2SO4 for potassium.It has as follows:
    Sunday: 50% warter change, then KNO3+K2SO4+fleet enema.
    Monday: Seachem trace+Iron
    Tuesday: KNO3+K2SO4+fleet enema
    Wednesday:Trace+Iron
    Thursday:KNO3+K2SO4+fleet enema
    Friday:Trace+Iron
    Saturday: nothing
    The dosing for every time is: KNO3 1/2 tsp, K2SO4 1/2 tsp, fleet enema 35 drops, Seachem trace 10ml and Seachem Iron 5ml.
    CO2 is always at an optimum level of about 30-33ppm,via DC. I use a 1000L/H powerhead to difuse CO2 as a mist.
    Light: 4X54 T5s
    PH 6,6
    KH 4
    DH 8
    NO3 20-25 ppm
    PO4 1-1,5 ppm

    The plants grow up fine and suddenly the tips turn small & dark with curled leafes..
    The only thing my mind goes to is maybe Mg deficiency ?

    Some photos
    This is my tank
    [​IMG]

    Eusteralis stellata
    [​IMG]

    Nesaea crassicaulis
    [​IMG]

    Rotala sp. green
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    CO2

    Nothing else can do that, those species I have and adding more of the nutrients does n stunt, and less does not stunt those species.

    Also, some plants are fine, where as some are not, this strongly suggest CO2 more than any other possible parameter, plants have differential CO2 uptake ability.

    And new tip growth is where we see CO2 deficiency the strongest.

    You can reduce the light, this will indirectly reduce CO2 demand.
    Or you can add bit more CO2 to compensate.

    I cannot induce any type of tip stunting with PO4, K, NO3, traces unless they are simply missing from the dosing. Or you do not add them etc.

    Never have been able to induce tip stunting with any nutrient other than CO2.

    Many have made such claims............but every time I try it, I have nice thick healthy growth.

    So there's other things going on in their tank beside the nutrient issue, mostly CO2 issues.

    I have no faith in any Drop checker for CO2.
    That's not telling me muchof anything other than a very generla range and a 2-4 hour time delay and poor color resolution.

    It's also just one spot in the tank, generally pretty low in terms of CO2.

    You need good CO2 though the entire tank, not just one spot.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. detlef

    detlef Subscriber

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    Hi,

    at least for Eusteralis (Pogostemon) stellata I can induce stunting in growing tips by inconsistent fertilization. If nutrients fluctuate from say 2 to 15ppm of NO3 or 0,1 to 1ppm of PO4 or vice versa within a day or two the plant will stunt.


    I've seen this many times and it had nothing to do with CO2 levels. After fertilization of N and P was resumed to daily basis with equal and small amounts every day I had it growing for almost a year without one single stunting until I threw it away.

    Just my observation.

    Best regards,
    Detlef
     
  4. alexraven

    alexraven Junior Poster

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    Thank you Tom 4 the quick reply !
    The truth is that recently I increased the burst lighting period gradually from 3hours to 5 hours for faster growth and better color, but it didnt crossed my mind that more light demands more CO2 also !
     
  5. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi,

    Don't forget to adjust your macro/micro dosing as well with adjustments to light and c02............

    C02 and other nutrients ALL need to be in sufficient quantities for the light level.

    You also can decrease as lighting levels are lowered.

    Also don't forget to adjust c02/dosing for bio-mass as well. As plants grow and thicken, bunch, etc they will need more nutrients which will need to be met..........

    When c02 is at adequate and stable levels for ALL plants in the tank, the plants will be better able to assimilate other nutrients.
     
  6. alexraven

    alexraven Junior Poster

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    @Gerryd ,yes you have right ! Increasing burst light period should be followed by nutrient adjustment as well. I have just started a new fertilizing method as I mentioned before.
    Thank you all !
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Even if it is say NO3 and not dosing enough, peticularly with the R green and P stellata as mentioned., you still need to make certain it's not CO2.

    Nutrient should be ruled out using water changes not rely solely on test kits unless you calibrate the test kits(do you know how to do this?).

    Then you are in good shape, then focus on CO2.
    More light = more cO2 demand and also more nutrient demand.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. alexraven

    alexraven Junior Poster

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    No, I dont.. I have read many times in here that one should calibrate test kits but i cant understand how this could be done.

    I also found out tonight that seachem trace is a supplement for seachem flurish , is this correct? But I use just the trace.
    Seacem trace also lacks Mg so I am not dosing Mg for months now except for what there is in the tap water in every w.c. ?
     
  9. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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  10. alexraven

    alexraven Junior Poster

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    Hi again. You have helped me a lot my friends ! I increased the CO2 and started dosing Flurish combined with Trace.
    After just 3 days the improvement is amazing !!
    The tank is shining, lots of pearling in there and the stunted plants are back with new healthy tips.
    Cant thank you enough..:)
     
  11. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Now you have good growth, slowly trim the algae and stunted tips off, and do this weekly, etc..............try to do say 20-30% of the tank trimming each week.
    In 3-8 weeks, the tank should be in real good shape.

    The harder part is just staying on top of things over time/the long haul.
    Opa!


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
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