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Starting to get worried

Discussion in 'Algae Control' started by Tiago Nicolau, Dec 30, 2013.

  1. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    Hello, my 12g tank reached his 1 month old, pretty new,

    Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzcciyQrZFg

    Machinery is:
    14W dual Beamswork Led Fixure 10k
    Eheim 2213 filter
    Inline Jebo 300W Termostate
    Pressurized CO2 from TMC V2 Regulator Pro
    Small return pump with sponge filter
    Upaqua Inline Reactor

    Not machinery but soil is ADA New Amazonia

    Flora:

    Hydrocotyle sp Japan
    Hemianthus Callitrichoides
    Java moss
    Alternanthera Reineckii sp. mini
    Myriophylum Mattogrossence var. red
    Rotala Wallichi
    Cryptocoryne Wendtii var. green
    Anubias Nana and Nana Petite

    Fauna:

    Only 3 small guppies to test CO2 and respiration

    My parameters are:

    TDS: 180
    pH: ~7 off-period ; 5,8 on-period
    kH: 2
    gH: 3
    Temp: 23ºc

    Im dosing EI 3x weekly macro and micro on off-days, at these daily ranges from KNO3 and KH2PO4, also dosing gH booster( only CaCL2 and SoSO4) to add 1 dgh to tap:

    k 5,5
    n 1,66
    no3 7,36
    p 0,68
    po4 2,09

    Micros are:

    B 0.03
    Cu 0.0030
    Fe 0.22
    Mg 0.05
    Mn 0.06
    Mo 0.0017
    Zn 0.01



    Im having mostly filamentous green and brown algae, brown spot algae, BBA and GSA on leaves,
    Looking closely to the anubias, you can see some black stuff, like black leaves but that doesnt sound like leaves, maybe some kind of hard tissue algae??
    BBA is growing, at first it was only on the anubias petite nana, but now its on all of them, some Reineckii and even on the big rock!

    At first it was due to lack of circulation, lily pipe was aimed at the back loosing all it strenght, but now its on the middle, circulating to the rock, touching all the plants, and the small return pump helps giving some upper co2 back down for the cubas,

    I turn CO2 on 2 hours before lights, when they get on, pH drops 1 unit, and at the end of CO2 injection, it is 1.2 units, dosing 4 bps now, up from 3,

    If both dropcheckers give me the same green-yellow colour, and pH drop is 1-1.2 degrees, measured by a solution calibrated pen pH meter and since now all plants get moved by the circulation, can this still be CO2 deficiency?

    Here is my hypotesis: the lack of circulation and low CO2 levels at lights on, made algae prosper, but even if now this issues got corrected, they still grow even if plants grow, am i right?

    Now, how can i fight this algae outbreak?
    mechanical removal of the filamentous, trimming the BBA infested plants, then Blackout and then excel dosage?


    I still only have 3 little guppies, no other fauna, so i can play a little with excel or H2N2, but i dont know if thats effective,

    Im assuming my variables now are only CO2 since light its always the same, and fertilization is EI based and last time i checked for NO3 it gave me 20 to 30 ppm and my test kit usually gives me less than i have...is this a sign that plants are not uptaking?
     
  2. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    I'd try less light intensity. Less Watts or raise the entire fixture about 10 inch. Then see what happens. Since light drives CO2 uptake, you have to find the situation where CO2 uptake equals or is less then what is provided. If you can't add more CO2, then less light is the way to go.

    Even then, you need a lot of patience. To get rid of BBA, you might need months, not weeks.
     
  3. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    The light, really?
    Here i was thinking i spent money on a crap Led light and now may be too much lol

    Well about the bba, a little crew of 4 otocinclus affinis and some hijackers snails (i ghink ramshorn) could help me on that?

    I didnt try to go more than 4bps on the co2,
    Guppies dont seem distress since they spent more time chasing the female and eating some algae,
    I have to wait one more week before i change anything, since last saturday i changed from 3 to 4 bps
     
  4. dutchy

    dutchy Plant Guru Team
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    No, otos don't touch BBA, snails won't either.

    It's really all about the CO2/light balance. If that's ok, your problems will be gone, assuming that all ferts are provided.
     
  5. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    [​IMG]

    So i should pretty much turn off one of the fixures and treat with h2o2 and excel right?

    I mean, 1 day passed and i see new leaves everywhere and a bunch of algae that gree like nuts and even the moss grew!

    Can we define high light, a system wich we see visie growth day after day even on slow grow plants?
     
  6. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    Well, today was cleaning day and WC, so i just removed all HC, removed a layer of the AS that was beneath the HC and placed gravel, in order to stop any feeding of algae that could be the reason of such problems with diatoms,

    Also removed a fixure, now i have the 9W LED one, lets see if this less lights balance things up,

    Did a major cleaning, but still a lot of diatoms on the tank, didnt clean any BBA as i dont have xcel or H2N2 at the moment

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well, today was cleaning day and WC, so i just removed all HC, removed a layer of the AS that was beneath the HC and placed gravel, in order to stop any feeding of algae that could be the reason of such problems with diatoms,

    Also removed a fixure, now i have the 9W LED one, lets see if this less lights balance things up,

    Did a major cleaning, but still a lot of diatoms on the tank, didnt clean any BBA as i dont have xcel or H2N2 at the moment
     
  7. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Tiago, if you want to get rid of BBA effectively and continuously, get a bunch of Amano shrimp. They eat that algae. Don't from your picture you have really a lot of it, and you'd need too much Excel. Amanos do the job!
     
  8. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    You dont know how hard it is to buy amanos in here, so they are really not an option for me :/

    I just dont understand that if both ph drop is 1-1.1 degrees, and dropcheck is green, and water circulates everywhere, how can it be a co2 issue,

    Maybe doing a venturi external reactor should make a difference?

    The one i have wont ensure an increase of pressure as it already leaks a little lol
     
  9. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    I notice now that your GH is pretty low, so I am wondering if you have enough magnesium despite you add the booster. I would double the dose after water change, to see if it makes any difference.

    Other questions:

    1. How often do you change water? How much?

    2. How long do you keep your lights on?

    3. When you remove manually algae. How do they take to come back?
     
  10. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Could you explain what N and P are compared to No3 and po4? Also: are the numbers the grams you dose every 2 days?
     
  11. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    Starting to get worried

    Assuming i have 0 ppm of Mg from tap(wich seems right) then im adding 5ppm weekly,
    Hm, Mg deficiency should bring signs of white leaves of some sort and i dont see it but i will increase Mg by 10ppm then, if i dont see any difference i bring it back again due to the 4:1 ratio

    I do weekly 50-80% WC depending on how much i need to clean wich means 80% 2 weeks in a row lol
    Last week was dual WC so 100% i suppose

    Lights are on 8 hours daily

    3rd question is a tricky one lol didint quite understand but they do bounce back real fast, at least when i had the dual fixure, need to check tank to see if 1 fixure flowed them down(specially diatoms..)

    Hmm well the N and P are from the dry salts, being the ones we all dose, KNO3 and KH2PO4,
    This dosage is from a store premixed solution that ends today so next time i dose will be from my own blend,

    Those numbers are daily values,
    I dose that 3 times daily,
    Once on saturday(WC), Monday and Wenesday
    Friday i dont dose any and micros are on the off days

    Of all my problems, i made sure i dont have any fert deficiency, only excess as im sure i have,


    Btw, my water reports state a 35 ummol/L concentration on Fe,
    Is ummol the same as ppm?
     
    #11 Tiago Nicolau, Jan 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2014
  12. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Thanks for the data. Your water looks really soft, I would look into adding more GH booster.

    All the rest looks fine to me, I would tweak water KH and GH as well as Co2, possibly increase it a little bit more (slowly!)

    About the umol or "micromoles", here is an interesting thread for you:

    http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2206653


    Also, to combat algae, if you have the possibility to add more plants, specifically Higrophilas or Ceratophillum, they can help to compete fast with algae. Once you have re-established your tank, you can throw them away. I have used them successfully to combat algae in my tank several times in the past.

    Just my 2 cents!
     
  13. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    thanks for the article :)

    I have ordered Riccia, gonna use it to shadow the wood and to aid in combat as well, and gonna try to carpet it :)

    Well i just placed the small pump on the right, near the wood, so it brings flow to the back sade and descends on the left,
    i really think flow is a issue in here, due to the placement of the wood and large rock, since the rock ctus the flow on the back of it, specially for the crypot on the left,
    also the outflow pipe blows water to the rock wich ascends to the surface, wasting a lot of CO2 (lots of bubbles go straith up to the surface)

    By placing the pump on the right, i saw more movement on the left, saw flow near the surface going down from the left glass to the bottom of the tank,

    next WC i will increase gH to 5, my tap currently is specially soft, comes from the foicet with a 69ppm TDS lool my AC Brita filter doesnt filter water that good

    Yesterday i returned home after 1 day absence and i saw the right tripartita bunch melting some leaves, odd since that plant is a weed, but the one to the left is thriving,

    In my opinion i have a nasty layout so i need 2 outflows,
    Gonna study the dual venturi external reactor from Tom, i think placing ir instead of the small pump will give me a nice flow improvement as well co2 :)

    - - - Updated - - -

    thanks for the article :)

    I have ordered Riccia, gonna use it to shadow the wood and to aid in combat as well, and gonna try to carpet it :)

    Well i just placed the small pump on the right, near the wood, so it brings flow to the back sade and descends on the left,
    i really think flow is a issue in here, due to the placement of the wood and large rock, since the rock ctus the flow on the back of it, specially for the crypot on the left,
    also the outflow pipe blows water to the rock wich ascends to the surface, wasting a lot of CO2 (lots of bubbles go straith up to the surface)

    By placing the pump on the right, i saw more movement on the left, saw flow near the surface going down from the left glass to the bottom of the tank,

    next WC i will increase gH to 5, my tap currently is specially soft, comes from the foicet with a 69ppm TDS lool my AC Brita filter doesnt filter water that good

    Yesterday i returned home after 1 day absence and i saw the right tripartita bunch melting some leaves, odd since that plant is a weed, but the one to the left is thriving,

    In my opinion i have a nasty layout so i need 2 outflows,
    Gonna study the dual venturi external reactor from Tom, i think placing ir instead of the small pump will give me a nice flow improvement as well co2 :)
     
  14. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    You are welcome! Sounds like a good plan, I am sure riccia will help, as well as increasing the GH/KH.

    Keep us posted!
     
  15. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    WEll after WC this morning i have a total of 6 dgH, but the ratios i dunno about,
    I dosed 9ppm Mg, and i dunno if the 2 dgH i had are all Ca or not but the important seems to be that Mg and Ca minerals are present :)

    I just bought Excel, but already did WC, so if i want to apot treat the BBA is it ok for doing it now without changing water?
    Or should i just dose daily and next saturday i spot treat before wc?
    I also will buy H2O2
     
  16. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Good to know about your new dosing, let's see how your plants go now.

    As for spot treatment, I use a syringe and just spray the algae under water with it. Just be careful to not add too much of it to your tank, but usually with 5ml you can treat a good amount of algae. Important: do a first application, then wait 24 hours and do it again. Do at least 3 applications before to see some result. Bottom line: algae will now give you any signs after the first application!
     
  17. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    So i dose 5ml or so without ever doing wc and doing it daily?
    Well i dont have any shrimps to worry shout toxicity for now lol
     
  18. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    Yes, for your 12gl 5ml excel after the WC is ok, but the subsequent days don't use more than 1ml a day.
     
  19. Tiago Nicolau

    Tiago Nicolau Member

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    Should i expect any wekeaning of diatoms and all the other algae i have?
    Or the weakening is notable only when spot dosaging?

    truth be said, i only bought excel for its algacide effects, i should have nice free CO2 now with all that mist coming out lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Should i expect any wekeaning of diatoms and all the other algae i have?
    Or the weakening is notable only when spot dosaging?

    truth be said, i only bought excel for its algacide effects, i should have nice free CO2 now with all that mist coming out lol
     
  20. fablau

    fablau rotalabutterfly.com
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    If you don't overdose excel by doing that, you will treat just the specific spots. Do you have so many algae?
     
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