Spirogyra Outbreak Help

[borman]

Friends, help me please.
Over 2 months i fight with this damn algae - and nothing help.

Its start probably due to ammonia spike and may be with some plants from another people. (when prepared tank for IAPLC 2010)
My current setup:
Tank 125*50*50 (270-280 Liter of pure water)
Light (reduced since 1,5 month) 2*54 T5 (Denerlee planta+amazon day) (ATI pendant - good efficiency) - 8 hours/day from 12-00 till 20-00
CO2 - Pressurized 3 bps (diameter of bubble counter - 5mm tube) - through Denerlee CO2 diffucer. Turning on 1 hour prior light and off 1 hour before lights out.- So I did not reduce CO2 - its the same as it was during sweet life the tank
Filtration -JBL 500+Atman 1200
Ferts. NO3 -2 ppm PO4 0.27 K 2.65 - Daily Avarage maintaining level NO3 - 7, Po4 - 0,6 ppm. Trace 1-max2 time per week. (this is reduced levels which i currently use)
KH 3-4
GH 6
PH - 6.3-6.8
Fishes - 20 Rasboras - so no overfeeding.
Plants - mostly Hydrocotila tripartita, Staurogyne repens Blyxa Japonika

So what I already tried. (CO2 and Light always as above stated)

1. I tried to reduce nutrients (from forced level which was at start) to above stated and do frequent and big water changes simultaneously adding good amount of ecxel - No effect - Spir starts look beeter
2. Somewhere i find info and - I extremely increase Macro dosage for 2 days (up to 40 NO3 and 3ppm PO4) - with following huge water changes and returning to normal level -no effect - Spir look ever better (but I lost almost all my amano shrimps) Damn
3. Ok if she like a lot of macro - may be she dislike no macro - so 1week no macro added - as results - Spirogyra looks fine - plans starved and look bad. So level of nutrients was reestablished.

Also I found that Spiro grows much better on Hydrocotila tripartita and less on Staurogyne. And Hydrocotila are not stunted - its grows very good...

Of course all this experiments was made with time - waiting for algae reaction - almos 1,5 month takes this fight - No results -
A know that Spiro use the same conditions as plants - so how to kill it.
Every week a have a lot of quality green long threads - it's time to open a weaving factory.....
Help..

 

[Gerryd]

Hi,

So I did not reduce CO2 - its the same as it was during sweet life the tank

I would not assume that c02 levels have remained ADEQUATE and/or STABLE over time. Plant demand for c02 can change with more bio-mass and your c02 delivery method can suffer from any number of components.

Are you sure your diffuser is still as effecient as when new? Have you cleaned it recently?

I would SLOWLY and carefully (as you have done) increase the c02 a bit and see how that goes..

IMO, you could most likely reduce the light a bit as well. Maybe some floating plants or something?

Reduced light will reduce the c02 demand and help ensure you have enough.

C02 levels change rapidly over space and time, and it is not easy to supply sufficient and stable amounts.

 

[borman]

Thanks Gerry.

Actually Co2 level the same as was before in setup with much higher and demanding bioload
http://acuariorosa.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/480.jpg
And of course i clean diffuser every week. Also due to i have 2 filters they made good current. And main I have less biomass less dense layout and 2 times less light. Also plants show no sign of CO2 deff.
But of course, I can increase the CO2 level and look on Spiro....only scare that increases CO2 add more power to Spiro
About light - Before I use 4*54 - 10 hours day but scince 2 month i use 2*54. I can not made less cause my pendant will not work with only 1 lamp. So may be as you told Pistia or Riccia....
Whats about ferts..decrease it or stay with no changes.?

 

[yme]

two words: florida flagfish

great fish for the battle against thread algae!

greets,

yme

 

[dutchy]

+1 on what Gerry said. 3 bps doesn't seem that much for a tank your size. The fact that it worked before doesn't say that much either. Never assume your CO2 is ok. So trying to increase bit by bit is a good option, using your fish as a limitation. Anyway the Spiro won't just melt, you will still have too remove it manually. If it's established, it's hard to beat. But if you remove it as good as you can, there's a good chance it won't come back using elevated CO2 levels.

Your reduced ferts are kind of close or at deficiency level. 2x 54W is perfect.

regards,
dutchy

 

[detlef]

Hi borman,

couple months ago I was dealing with the same pesky alga, at least it looked similar to what I can identify from your pictures. I have good reason to believe that mine was spyrogyra as well. As the issue got worse I decided to eradicate the alga using every little hammer I knew from reading here and elsewhere. I don't know whether all steps I describe below are really necessary but in my tank the alga disappeared afterwards and did not return again.

Day one: trim most affected leaves, introduce some carbon to your canister (1/3 capacity) followed by a two day black-out, don't fertilize, no CO2, don't feed fish, airate tank

Day two: patience (many alga threads should have detached already floating all around the tank)

Day three: drain water as low as possible and spray KH2PO4 solution (5g to 100ml) onto the affected areas and wait for five minutes until filling back again (please use only 50% of old tank water), switch on lights to 50% intensity, trim most affected leaves once again, CO2 bubble rate back to normal, feed fish, add 12ml Excel to every 80L of water, introduce 20 Amano shrimp / 80L

Day four: clean filter (you'll be surprised how much green sluggish there is), remove carbon, fertilization back to normal, feed fish

Day five: all things back to normal including light


Excel does kill spiro but only at strong solutions (I have tried 1:20) which might eventually turn the plants brown as well. So there is not much sense in using it against spyro as the sole approach.


Good luck, Detlef

 

[borman]

Dear Detlef

Uhh... huge solution....
So i will try it - cause its nothing to loose.

About day three

As i understood i shall drain maximum water. K2HPO4 etc then fill back 50% of old water and rest with new one? - correct

Will keep you all infirmed

Regards
Larry

 

[detlef]

Hi Larry,

yes you understood correctly. And yes again, for a huge tank it sounds like a lot of work BUT success was on my side so I recommend doing the same procedure.

I quess the main part is the two day black-out combined with carbon filtration plus no nutrients entering the tank from outside followed by the introduction of a sufficient number of Amano shrimp. I reckon the alga detaches in search for a better place to grow when no nutrients, and I repeat NO NUTRIENTS, are available for some days.

Have a look on day two using a pocket lamp. You should already see the alga floating around!

Best regards, Detlef

 

[rockhoe14er]

Day three: spray KH2PO4 solution (5g to 100ml) onto the affected areas

what is the point of spraying kH2PO4 on the affected areas?

 

[detlef]

Good question,

to which I don't know the answer. I remember though that someone long time ago found that KH2PO4 was effective in erradicating spyro (or was it GDA?) and Tom as well as others supported the idea. Sorry can't help you any further. I'm neither botanist nor chemist so please bare with me. The more knowledgeable guys should jump in here please.

Regards, Detlef

 

[nipat]

Here is an answer from someone who knows.

KH2PO4 works, as well as KNO3.

This is like adding too much salt to any plant, it kills by frying the cells through osmolysis.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/74704-eliminating-bba-pure-kno3.html

 

[Biollante]

Laundry Soap?

Hi,

The salts work well, if you have sodium percarbonate it works the best, quickest most effective, can be a danger to primitive plants you want.

Biollante

 

[rockhoe14er]

Here is an answer from someone who knows.

KH2PO4 works, as well as KNO3.

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/algae/74704-eliminating-bba-pure-kno3.html

So is this supposed to instantly kill the algae or hurt the plants?

Also is there any way to measure 5 g of KH2PO4 using tsps?

 

[Matt F.]

the only thing that helped me get through this one was to add more plants. You can do this one of two ways:

1) set co2/light/nutrients to optimum levels for awesome plant growth

2) pack the tank with fast growers.

Spiro loves the same parameters as plants. I had some in my eleocharis belem.

 

[ShadowMac]

something I have noticed is that the poster did not wait long enough when making changes. I have found that my algae issues take 2-3 weeks to really resolve once I fix what caused the problem. By changing things every week, plants are inhibited mostly, that algae can adapt better and quicker. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he state he made all of those changes over the course of a month and a half?

I would suggest giving increased CO2 and proper dosing some time after manually removing as much as you can (a tooth brush works well). Also stick to a good water change schedule, even increase its frequency.

But I am not the expert many here are, this is all based upon my own experience and advice I have received from others.

 

[jonny_ftm]

I agree with Matt F.

I often had spirogyra outbreaks in my nano. Snails and shrimps don't eat it. It loved my Eleocharis too and especially the moss. EI/CO2 won't help when they are too much. Tried increasing the mist, using toxic CO2 levels without living stock... What works all times is decreasing light, either intensity or duration. Spirogyra loves light. In low light, it will grow, but really very slowly. In 2-3 weeks, plants will overgrow it. Without light, it will get dormant in few weeks.

For me, it was the easiest algae to deal with, each time. Much easier to get rid of than GDA, BBA and BGA. The main advantage is that it is easily removed and doesn't stick hard to plants. Once it gets dormant and stops growing, when you remove the remaining parts, you'll be free, unless you increase light