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Spiking Tropica Plant Nutrition with additional Iron (Seachem Flourish Iron)

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by growitnow, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. growitnow

    growitnow Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi,

    I recall Tom indicating he "spikes" his trace mix with iron. I want to do the same with the commercial trace (TPN) and iron (Flourish Iron) I use.

    Is it OK for me to mix TPN together with Flourish Iron in the same reservoir? Each of my single dosing vials would contain 20ml TPN mixed with 35ml Flourish Iron. I want to make up enough vials to last a month, then dump each vial which would contain TPN+Flourish Iron into tank as scheduled.

    Thanks,
    growitnow
     
  2. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Is TPN the same thing as Tropica Master Grow? 90 gallon tank right?
    If so, you are already adding 0.04ppm/dose with TPN and the seachem Iron would add another 1ppm/dose.
    When are you going to start using dry fertilizers? :rolleyes:
     
    #2 Tug, Aug 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2010
  3. evandro.carrenho

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    I understand using dry fertilizers due to costs, as long as your have them available to buy. But why would you want to add more than 1ppm of iron per dose, even with dry ferts?

    Seachem Iron seems one of the commercial products with a reasonable cost/benefit rate.
     
    #3 evandro.carrenho, Aug 4, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  4. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    TMG is now TPN...same product different name....
     
  5. growitnow

    growitnow Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi,

    I do dose NPK with dry fert. Right now I use commercial TPN (previoulsy TMG) and Flourish Iron liquids.

    Why 1ppm Iron?
    Tom had a post indicating he dosed iron about 1ppm. Though in that post not what frequency (1x, 3x per week?) and I don't know if that was his standard practice or just for a particular tank. Also, I had some heteranthera zosterifolia stem melting and was told iron deficiency can contribute to stem rot - so I started dosing heavy iron.

    I guess I am taking the shotgun approach, to dose heavily and dose everything (NPK, extra K+, TPN, Iron, extra Iron, GH booster, extra Mg). Tank is a few months old.

    90gal
    15ppm Nitrogen, 3x
    5ppm Phosphate, 3x
    23ppm Potassium, 3x
    20ml TPN, 3x
    35ml (1ppm) Flourish Iron, 3x
    4tsp GH booster, 1x
    3ppm Mg, 1x
    Excel, 20ml daily
     
  6. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    I think Tom doses Fe Gluconate (Flourish Iron) 3-5x week. :p
    A 250mL bottle of Flourish Iron and a 35mL dose will last maybe two weeks.
    If you purchase dry fertilizer from aquariumfertilizer.com an 8 oz. bag will cost $13. Just a ruff estimate, but 3g (0.1oz.) in 250mL distilled water dosed at 5mL into a 90 gallon tank would give you 1ppm. That's about 79 doses per bag.
     
  7. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I dose this much but may not need it.
    I do dosing by eye and the plant responses. I report the dosing as ppm.

    With TMG, it's more a cost related issue.
    We in SFBAAPS have used both CMS+B and TMG for 15 years.
    Not many can tell any real differences.

    I doped CMS+B with DTPA Fe and it was identical for the most part, I also added a little EDDHA Fe.
    Fe Gluconate is more for softer KH's(say under 4 degrees). Or folks that dose daily and want to add more Fe here and there by itself.

    It's not that likely you need 1ppm, I dose around .5-.7ppm per dose but I have a fair amount of DTPA(1:4 ratio DTPA : CMS by volume) .

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  8. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    How big is the reservoir? Fill it with TPN spiked with some DTPA Fe.
     
  9. growitnow

    growitnow Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi Tug,

    The reservoirs are vials, each 60ml. So far I make up 15 or so vials, each containing 20ml TPN. When dosing traces, I add one vial to 90gal tank. Immediately thereafter I measure out 35ml of Flourish Iron and add to tank. I wanted to know if it was 'ok' to mix up my 15 or so vials in advance, with each vial containing 20ml of TPN plus 35ml Flourish Iron. That way, I would not have to do measuring at the time of actual dosing.

    I realize I have heard folk say many times that Iron does not last long in the water column (in a form usable to plants), though that longevity is moderated somewhat by the nature of the chelator. This makes me think that adding Flourish iron to ANY other fluid might reduce its functional value once added to water in tank. So, (I think I think?) the answer to my question posed is that I would be better off NOT mixing the TPN and Flourish Iron because adding iron to an additional solution will reduce the length of time it is in a form useful to plants - even if before added to tank. This seems to make logical sense to me, can someone validate? Or tell me there seems no reason not to do this (mix the two) in the first place.

    nonetheless.. what is a source of DTPA Fe, I am just beginning to sort through DIY trace/iron options. Which product at Aquariumfertilizer.com (or elsewhere) is DTPA Fe?

    thanks,
    growitnow
     
    #9 growitnow, Aug 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2010
  10. csmith

    csmith Guest

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  11. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    This is not really an answer, but if the iron were to fall out of solution or lose the chelate effect, wouldn't I see some form of a precipitate? What causes iron to lose it's chelate is a high dKH/pH. And with distilled water there shouldn't be a problem. I know a lot of us mix CSM+B and Iron stock solutions and hope that you are wrong.
     
  12. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Look Close

    Hi Tug,

    Yes if you looked closely, enough you would see the iron fall out of solution. :)

    Into a gallon (3.8 liter) of distilled water, mix a gram (1/5 teaspoon) baking soda (exact amounts are not critical).

    Fill a clear container, pint, quart, liter whatever you have, and mix in a teaspoon of your iron supplement.

    Leave it sit for a while gluconate the iron will fall out quite quickly, EDTA should take a few hours and DTPA chelates may take two days, I have not tried this with any of the others.

    To get an idea of what your chelate does, instead of the baking soda solution, filter your aquarium water, coffee filters are good for this I like to twice filter my water when doing these kinds of things, probably not necessary, but that’s me, not necessary. :eek:

    Biollante
     
  13. mulm

    mulm Junior Poster

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    So what is the concensus? I would also like to make a stock solution of traces + FE using Flourish and Flourish Iron . Is this feasible and safe?
     
  14. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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  15. mulm

    mulm Junior Poster

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    but nutrients don't cause algae...
     
  16. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Mojo Buster?

    Hi,

    I know the iron gluconate breaks down quickly. It may simply be that in the presence of other nutrients the iron begins breaking down and it may lose its mojo. :eek:

    Since Flourish contains iron, though how chelated I do not know, it seems they should get along. :)

    Perhaps start with small mixtures and work from there, see what happens. :gw

    If you try it, please tell us your experience.

    Biollante
     
  17. barbarossa4122

    barbarossa4122 Guru Class Expert

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    Hi Tom,

    I noticed that you are adding a little EDDHA and I would like to know how much should I use for a typical CSM+B and DTPA micro solution.
     
  18. bdonsker

    bdonsker Lifetime Members
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    Hi Gerry, I am sure this tank may have come and gone, but can you tell me what the two foreground plants are on the right side of the tank?
     
  19. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Maybe 16 CMS+B, 4 DTPA, 2 Fe Gluc and then 1 EDDHA.
    I'd dose the Fe Gluc separately actually if the water is a KH over 4.
     
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