Something not right?

shane

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Is a 3 day black out okay for the fish as well? Fish like Discus? Will fish actually eat when its completely dark?
 

BHornsey

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Hi Shane,

3 days without food is fine for fish (I've done it with Discus). I had to do a 3 day cover several times and didn't lose any fish.

After the cover up, I did 50%+ water changes and and dosed 1½-2 x the larger Excel dosage every other day (actually, I just read on another thread that I should've dosed Excel whilst it was covered but I didn't and all was fine)

My tap water has 10ppm NO3 and 1ppm PO4 anyway so I just dosed traces but it depends on your water. Tom said not to let ferts drop. I'm sure someone will confirm this for you.

I didn't find any one method better ofr inhibiting the algae, it's using all three in concert gave the result.

Brian
 

VaughnH

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I wouldn't try to dose the Excel during the blackout, for the obvious reason: it allows light into the tank as you dose. For the same reason I wouldn't dose fertilizers - the plants can't do much growing in total blackness anyway, so the ferts shouldn't need to be added then.
 

Tom Barr

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Excel kills the algae, that's why it's added, just do not go crazy with it, stick with labeled rate.

Plants will also take up nutrients in the dark also.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

BHornsey

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Now that I have my tank under a bit more control, do you recommend dosing Excel indefinitely (at the standard measures of course) as part of my normal dosing routine.
After reading the EI light article, I've been using it on my two smaller, non-CO2, tanks and I must say I'm impressed with the results.
 

BHornsey

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I'm back!

After everything was under control I started spacing out the w/cs and backing off the Excel. I started getting some fresh algae (B****r !) so I've continued with the higher dose of Excel. :confused:

I know your initial opinion was too much light so I've been looking at the new Arcadia I Bars. A 2x 24w T5 is listed as a drop in for my tank so I'll think I'll get that when I get some cash spare. Or I could replace the MH lamp & ballast with a 70W

I'm now setting up my 6'x2'x2' tank. Do you think the 150w MH would be OK for this tank with a bank of T5s (the T5s for 10 hours and the MH for a 2/3 hour burst in the middle)

I have good CO2 now. The reactor is working well and I have a mist settling on the plants. The CO2 test indicator is light green. My only concern is the shape of the tank; it's a quarter circle (A Juwel Trigon tank). The pump outputs along the back wall and round. The algae seems to start at the front on the substrate and works out from there. Do you have any experience with rounded tanks?

Brian
 

Tom Barr

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I'm not clear on the type of lighting for each tank.
T5's on the 6x2x2 and 1 x 150w?

I think the Corner tank is fine with just the T5's(10-11hours) or a single 150w MH(8-9 hours).

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

BHornsey

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Yeah, that's right.

I'm still getting a little trouble with hair algae. It almost completely disappearred but if I reduce my Excel dose to normal levels it starts to come back. :confused: It never quite went from my lileopolis and marsilea hirsuta at the front though the hair grass is going well now. Water changes are currently every 3/4 days.

Bio load isn't high; dozen neons, 6 corys, 4 shrimp, an elephant nose and a juvenile Discus (bout 2" dia) with good filtration (the Juwel filters have a slow turnover with big sponges) and is about 32 Gall (UK). Lighting is on for 7 hours currently with ambient lighting during the day and evening (it's in the living room)

In previous posts you felt I had too much light in the corner tank with the 150w MH. I was either going to get a T5 2x24W or get a replacement 70w lamp and ballast for the MH, whichever is cheaper:eek:

Brian
 

BHornsey

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Hi all,

I've been thinking about my troubles. Ever since I set my corner tank up I've been beset by algae problems in one area at the front of the tank. If left, it spreads out round the tank.
I've managed to beat it back with blackouts, w/cs every two days and Excel dosing but as soon as I relax, thinking I have it under control, back it comes. I have a 150w MH at the moment but I had the problem when I was using 4 Dennerle freshwater 18w T8s.

I've been trying to understand why and can only think of:

The shape of the tank: it's a quarter circle and may be a circulation issue but I don't think so. Any food falling there gets driven round into the corner.

When I set the tank up I had intended the very front to be a plant free area as I wanted an area where I could feed the fish and not get it too mixed up in the plants. I didn't bother putting any substrate there and ran aquarium sand in that area. The rest of the tank is fine gravel over Dennerle Deponit. However, it's always been an algae trap and the Echinodorus Tennelus and Sagitaria Pusillia grew into it anyway so I took as much of the sand out that I could and put gravel in but there's still no substrate at that point.

Ammonia: I did have a few too many fish to begin with but I think it's OK now. Also, ammonia would generate tank wide algae?

Any suggestions, coz what little hair I have left I'm pulling out :eek:

If I can borrow a digi-cam I'll try to post a shot of the area

Brian
 

VaughnH

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Does the front curve of the tank get hit by sunlight at any time? Algae all love light, and I have noticed that it grows best and first where the light intensity is the greatest, especially where any sunlight at all hits the tank.
 

BHornsey

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Hi Vaughn, ready for the New Year Celebrations? :D

The tank is at the far side of the room, about four metres away from the window. It is a very light, airy room but gets very little direct sunlight; during the summer it get first sun until about half nine but I don't think it's ever directly on the tank and, at this time of year, never.

Brian
 

BHornsey

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Hi Tom,

Just done some testing in an attempt to find out why I'm having algae probs.

I last dosed yesterday noon (dry dose by weight);
2.8 gms KNO3
0.5 gms KH2PO4
1.0 gms K2SO4
0.35 gms FE
0.6 gms Aqua Essentials' Traces
This is in 145L of water. I built one of the internal reactors and I have a good CO2 level with a mist forming very quickly.

I tested this evening (about 30 hours after dosing) and was surprised to find NO3 almost gone :( . I'm using Hagen Tetra Test kits;
NH3/4 = 0
PO4 = 5 ppm
NO3 = < 5 ppm
NO2 = 0.1 ppm
FE++ = .5 ppm
FE++ = 0 ppm

After reading the various posts and newsletters, can I assume that the plants are driven to use up the N by the light, a 150w MH, and are becoming N limited, thus allowing the algae to use the PO4? If so, should I increase frequency and / or amount of dose?

I'm using Chuck Gadd's Calculator and a digital weigh scale and I reckon I'm dosing around 12 ppm NO3.

Testing my tap water shows around 10 ppm NO3 and 1.75 ppm PO4 so, when I change water, I dose traces, FE, K and half measures on PO4 & KNO3. I think I'll knock off PO4 altogether at w/cs.

I'm dosing FE because my local water report shows it to be low (average 25 µg/L - NOT mg/L!) and is undetectable on test. Unfortunately, it doesn't give K values.
http://www.yorkshirewater.com/web/WQZ.nsf/0/62FAE833B3C4A19F802570B40041F46E/$file/Doncaster%20Rural%202004%20WSZ.pdf

Happy New Year, :D
Brian
 

Tom Barr

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You made some assumptions about NO3.

1.Light drives CO2 uptake and that can drive NO3 uptake, that's a safe assumption, reasonable etc.

2. The NO3 test kit was correct, this is not so reasonable.........if you calibrate it, then you'll know, making a solution of 1-5-10-2-ppm ought to tell how good it is....or is not.........

If the tank is fairly limited by just N alone, then a one day uptake of 8 ppm of NO3 may occur, but generally even at high light levels, 4ppm NO3/day is a lot.

Some denitrification may occur in older substrates, but that's not been addressed well by anyone in the hobby to date, I've threatened to, but it'll be awhile before that gets done.

Dose wise, you are on track, that sounds about right for the tap and the tank etc.


I'd suggest perhaps switching to Tropica master grow in place of the Fe/AE product. Otherwise from here, at least for the environmental ranges, you are in good shape.

CO2 is about all that's left to play with.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

BHornsey

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Hi, after a settled period I've had to resurrect this thread!

Last month I managed to replace the 150w MH with an Arcadia I-Bar fitted with a pair of 24w 7600k T5s. After some work I managed to kill off my algae.

However, this week I've noticed what I think is algae but I can't ID it. It looks like a coating of rust on some of the leaves on a few Crypts, Vallis and a Crinum. It's not widespread yet but I wanna kill it before it spreads.

I think I have CO2 up to scratch. I built a Tom Barr internal reactor. It takes a long while to get going though. I'm going to have to have a tinker with it. When I built it I couldn't find an elbow to fit the pump outlet so I put the pump outlet straight through the side of the diffuser barrel.

The only other thing, after reading a recent thread, is I dose macros and micros together on the same day. I do shift work so finding time to do something every day can be difficult: sometimes I'm out of the house all day!
I had been told it's really not that important but now I'm not so sure, particularly as I dose additional FE, Yorkshire Water is very low in iron according to their water report.

So, rusty plants or algae :confused:
 

BHornsey

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Continuing this on, I had a bit of inspiration.

I've been getting algae in certain areas of my 190L Juwel Trigon. The left side has been getting good growth, with little algae. Along the middle front and to the right, algae.

Sunday, I put an elbow on the filter outlet and directed it to the right corner of the tank, rather than the left. After only a day or two, the right side has improved and algae has appeared in the hairgrass to the left.

Anyone had experience of these round fronted tanks?

My only thoughts would be to put a small powerhead in the good corner to boost flow to the other corner but it will look a little poor in the tank; it's in my living room and I like it to look good.
 

Tom Barr

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Well right there shows the importance of good flow and mixing.
You might have an underpowered flow through the CO2 reactor etc.

CO2 levels can vary in the tank, so a measurement might not tell you what is going on in one part of the tank.

If there is little pH differences, then what else might produce good growth if the pH is high and suggest that there is low CO2?

CO2 gas not dissolved but getting into the plants is the only reasonable thing I can think of........so mixing the mist well throughout the tank will help(whether you think CO2 mist works or not, this does work in practical terms).

Regards,
Tom Barr
 

BHornsey

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Tom Barr;14820 said:
Well right there shows the importance of good flow and mixing.
You might have an underpowered flow through the CO2 reactor etc.

CO2 levels can vary in the tank, so a measurement might not tell you what is going on in one part of the tank.

If there is little pH differences, then what else might produce good growth if the pH is high and suggest that there is low CO2?

CO2 gas not dissolved but getting into the plants is the only reasonable thing I can think of........so mixing the mist well throughout the tank will help(whether you think CO2 mist works or not, this does work in practical terms).

Regards,
Tom Barr

The reactor is the internal one built to your design. I get good, visible misting but it's obviously not carrying round the tank, you can see the difference in the two areas.
The tank still has the Juwel internal filter, it has a medium turnover with plenty of media. I think the pump is rated at 600 Lph which it pushes out along the left back wall, then along the curved front, before coming back along the right back wall to the intake. The reactor is just to the left of the filter outlet in an effort to get it to travel round as much as possible.

Either I have to improve flow, the right hand corner must be a bit of a dead spot, or try and introduce CO2 in that corner as well.
 

Tom Barr

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Try a larger cansiter filter, say 200-300 gal/hr.

Regards,

TomBarr