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Snails in my DSM, is this a problem?

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by Immy, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. Immy

    Immy Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi all,

    I've been growing HC by the DSM in my 75 gallon for the past two weeks with great results so far. My dad saw the success and decided to place his little pots with seedlings for his vegetable garden in the my tank until the weather warms up a little.

    Well, now I've noticed A tiny snail or two in the tank. Id like to ask you all how much of a threat this is to my HC and the success of my tank in general.

    Any ideas on how to resolve this snail issue if it is a threat? Thanks in advance!!

    Imran
     
  2. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Most soft water common snails are Ramshorn snails, MTS and Physa. All are safe for plants, exept decaying leaves.
    In the nano in my signature, I lost all my snails after a treatment with Flubendazol for worms. My tank turned to a disaster for many months. I noticed that most algae evolve on decaying plant parts. I used to never have to remove any decaying parts with snails.

    One month ago, I introduced in the tank (11 gal) above 50 Ramshorn snail, as much Physa and MTS.

    MTS didn't survive (organic soil? too much plants on surface?) But Ramshorn snails and physa gave so many babies. Let you imagine. I feed them with my fish and critters. Ramshorn are the most useful because of their size, so they eat so much decaying plants. Now, I no longer have to remove any dead leave. I didn't for one year before Flubendazole, also thanks to an army of Ramshorn and Physa snails.

    So, let them alone, unless you like to clean your tanks
     
  3. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Here's how tank was, 6 months ago, when snails were very present. Notice the many snails, every where, fighting with CRS for food on the left part:

    [​IMG]



    And here's after the snails were killed by Flubendazol. It was a disaster, Anubia invaded by black spots and algae, mini pellia black and my new HC on the left front part was becoming full of Algae.

    I trimmed many times, and finally came with the Ramshorn and Physa army. It is on its way to become even greener than before. Anubia was cleaned in a week. HC is growing and as you see, they don't eat it. But, I never removed a decaying leave of HC or any other plant. It should grow soon and the last black spots on moss will be gone

    [​IMG]


    Snails on the HC, HC seems to like snails taking care of it :)

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Immy

    Immy Lifetime Charter Member
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    Awesome!! That sounds promising then :).

    Thanks for the quick reply too Jonny, it's much appreciated :)

    I'll keep you guys posted with any changes.

    Take good care
    Imran

    I
     
  5. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    np

    Many will advice to kill everything in nature they don't see the use. I personally, despite being very careful and respectful in that area, I also failed trying to kill Planaria with Flubendazole. Planaria came back, snails were all dead, water was polluted, shrimps died and probably, because of ammonia spikes and no snails to remove the decaying leaves, algae made me think many times to tear it all off. Now, I know that Planaria has its role in tank and won't dessimate a healthy shrimp colony as many say.
     
  6. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    this is a little off topic, but thought worth mentioning here. I successfully killed hydra and planaria with fenbendazole (aka safeguard a dewormer for dogs) in a 29 gallon low tech. It was a shrimp only tank with some nerite snails as well various others. I dosed .01 g/gal. It comes in 1 gram packs, so I divided that into tens then one of those tenths into tenths again to get approximately .01 g and added 3 of those small bunches. It dissolves poorly in water. I crushed it best I could stirred well and poured into the tank.

    Within 24 hrs all hydra and planaria were dead. Snails and shrimp were fine.

    This has been done by others as well. (not my original idea)

    just FYI
     
  7. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    I tried even lower doses. Snails died after 2 weeks only. The friend I have that breeds CRS have hundreds of them, of the highest quality. He has tons of snails. The walls are full of planaria, real big heavy ones. So, for a healthy shrimp, they just won't harm. Just let them alone.
     
  8. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    the hydras are just a little unsightly when clinging to everything and getting fat. Its good to know that planaria aren't as harmful as many state.

    In your post you stated you used flubendazole, I used fenbendazole. I'm not sure if you meant the same or if they are different. Could be slightly different compounds intended for the same use, but may affect other invertebrates differently.
     
  9. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Yes, they are different, same family, but different in fact. I used flubendazole at doses lower than what was stated on many forums to be snail safe. I didn't try fenbendazole. But, really now, I won't add any sort of chemicals just to kill something I heard it's bad in a forum. For Hydra, I don't know, but for planaria, I'm sure they're safe for CRS, despite what you could read in tons of forums
     
  10. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    just a note, I have noticed that a nerite snail in the tank seems to be done for. Hasn't moved in 2 days, so maybe I understated its harm to snails. I don't plan on treating again either.
     
  11. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    It took time to kill my snails, about 2 weeks. But they ended slowly on the soil, not moving. Let you imagine the pollution after the death of hundreds of snails and their babies in a 11 gal tank. Algae loved it
     
  12. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    same thing is currently happening to my snails. Weird deal, they move, but don't move anywhere. Luckily not many snails in this tank. I will have to be on the look out for dead snails.
     
  13. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Told you. Sadely, it starts like this. They stop moving slowly, till they die. You can already remove the snails with the abnormal behaviour before they toxicly pollute the water.

    Many in forums claim they used these products, safely on snails. I suspect, many claim it after only few days, but never give a feedback after 2 weeks to say their snails died
     
  14. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    makes sense, I dropped the ones I found into another tank to see if they recover. One has moved after about 10 hours, another has dug somewhat of a hole, and the third appears to be dead or has flipped around in its shell because the foot appears to be pointin up.

    I think I may look into how the chemical works out of curiousity.
     
  15. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Please give a feedback here in 2 weeks. I doubt they will survive after exposition
     
  16. Crispino Ramos

    Crispino Ramos Guru Class Expert

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    I believe the planaria was responsible for the death of my nerite snails. They must have a way of burrowing inside the nerite like a parasite.
     
  17. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Nerite snails are saline water snails. They never survive above a few months at best in a soft water tank. They lack many vital nutrients in such a water and won't breed. Planaria are scavengers. Once your nerite gets ill, they will eat it. Many people claim such things about planaria. I stopped believing in forums when I saw CRS breeding (many hundreds) with highest grades, among thousands of Ramshorn, physa, Lymnaea and MTS, and walls of the tank full of planaria, the big big ones, 0.5 cm

    On healthy living, just like snails, planaria won't do any harm.
     
  18. ShadowMac

    ShadowMac Lifetime Members
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    I did not have planaria in my tank, I was targeting the large numbers of hydra that seemed to be growing and multiplying every day. I have had nerites last for a year so far in one of my tanks. The soft acidic water does a number on their shells and they have begun to pass. They do an OUTSTANDING job of cleaning rocks and some leaves. I'm in total ageement with you jonny, snails are fine and even beneficial. They don't get out of control if your water quality is good and you don't over feed.

    I looked into how the drug works and it destroys microtubules in gastrointestinal tissues. It makes sense that it would be effective against creatures like planaria, hydras, and snails considering their physical makeup and body design would rely heavily on microtubule structures (think of collagen and other soft tissues) and their make up is more like the smooth muscle and tissue in intestinal walls, which fenbendazole is especially effective. Its action seems to have a fast acting effect on small organisms and eventually cripples and starves snails after their absorptive tissue is destroyed and likely many other structures containing microtubules.

    Perhaps the carapace of a shrimp protects it somewhat and their also may be something in the physiology of the shrimp that prevents the med from being absorbed as it is in the planaria, hydra, and snails. There may be more barriers or active transport through cellular tissues and spaces in shrimp than these other creatures. Just some thoughts.
     
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