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Simple EI Dosing Calculator

Discussion in 'Advanced Strategies and Fertilization' started by quenton, Jun 5, 2006.

  1. TexasRock

    TexasRock Prolific Poster

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    I have the "old" version can I just download this one to replace it?

    Keith
     
  2. Joetee

    Joetee Prolific Poster

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    I am not dosing MGS04. Should I be?
    I have hard water of 150. If I am not mistaken, MGS04 is dosed only if you have soft water. Is this correct?

    Joe
     
  3. Joetee

    Joetee Prolific Poster

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    TexasRock,

    Yes, I just deleted my desktop icon and redown louded the new program and installed it. Works great.

    Joe
     
  4. quenton

    quenton Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Yes - it updates everything (so long is the program is not running at the time).
     
  5. quenton

    quenton Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Depends on the Mg in your water -- GH is made up of (among other things), Ca and Mg. You could have lots of Ca and no Mg.

    My Mg is 8ppm according to the city tests, I don't remember my Ca. As a result I dose some Mg, but not a lot.
     
  6. Laith

    Laith Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    I like this calculator. One question:

    For 55g of water volume, the calculator indicates 38ml of TMG per week (or 33ml without the EI option ticked) to aim for a target level of 0.5mg/l of Fe...

    The TMG calculators I've seen online (for example: http://www.fishfriend.com/fertfriend.html) indicate that 38ml of TMG will add 0.133mg/l of Fe (and 33ml will add 0.115). Is that calculation wrong?

    Edit: actually, I just noticed that changing the desired Fe target level doesn't change the TMG dosing; only the CSM...
     
  7. quenton

    quenton Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Yes, I was not quite sure what to do with that. I had no real info on the TMG/Fe relationship. So Tom (and others) recommend that amount of TMG or the amount of CSM+B that provides the 0.5, as computed from some other online calculators. Thus I did not relate the TMG to Fe at all.

    Actually, when I first wrote the calculator, I used CSM+B and built the thing around that. I did not think I could get TMG here (Toronto), but then I found it at Big Al's, so I started alternating TMG with CSM+B to keep the cost down, then I found that Big Al's just got in a 5L bottle of TMG, so I bought one and will use that exclusively now. So I will think a bit more about the TMG stuff.
     
  8. Joetee

    Joetee Prolific Poster

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Quenton,

    What about Iron Chelate 10%?
    If I am dosing CSM+B to the spec's of the calculator under EI, would I still dose Iron Chelate 10%? If so, could you please add a line for this in the calculator?

    Thanks again

    Joe
     
  9. quenton

    quenton Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    I would not think so -- but I would rather have tom answer that question.
    If he does not -- I will post it as a new thread.
     
  10. Wet

    Wet Lifetime Members
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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Very nice. TMG calc will be a nice bonus -- fwiw, if I do one, I'll share the code and see it matches the FertFriend. TMG is 0.07% (g/L) Fe.

    Is it alright to spread that link around?

    For what its worth, my CSM+B calc says it would take 17.701 mLs to reach .50 ppm Fe in 50 gallons, using the trace mix of 40770 mg (9 teaspoons) in 500 mL. Your calc says 2.78mLs (.556 teaspoons) with EI dosing turned off. I am using the formula:

    (target ppm * tank gal * 3.77L/gal) / (mg CSM+B * (.0653mg Fe/mg CSM+B)/mL water) = mL dose to reach target ppm

    and the 1TBL CSM+B = 13600mg measurement from MatPat's trials. (I only have CSM+B+Extra Fe, but a buddy is sending me some to weigh and I'll post my trials if anyone wants.)

    Here's my input tables and php code for the above page if you or anyone wants to it for some project.

    Code:
    
      CSM+B calculator
     
  11. quenton

    quenton Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Please note that my 0.556 tsp is NOT 2.78 ml. It is .556 tsp dry-dose.
    If you put 9tsp in 500ml, and dose 18ml of that you are getting
    18/500 * 9 tsp
    or about 170/500 which is 0.324 tsp --- so you are not dosing as much as I am saying.

    Unless I misunderstand your note above??
     
  12. Wet

    Wet Lifetime Members
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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    No you understood it: I see now the 9tsp of CSM+B in 500mL is a TMG approximation. Still, .556tsp CSM+B dry in 50gals is 0.873ppm Fe.

    I think these may just be rounding errors from the 100gal example the calcs are derived from, and it is a great great calc for EI approximation. All this is just for whatever its worth.

    Just throwing it out there: Up for collaboration with anyone who wants to maybe make the "calc for everyone" Tom Barr has suggested.
     
  13. quenton

    quenton Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Hm -- my numbers for that one came from the "fertilator" only since chuck's did not have Fe or CSM+B on it.
     
  14. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    There are inherent practical trade offs for cals.
    Any model has them to some degree.

    I think Spar had a cal and a couple of other folks here did as well.
    What you might consider, working on just one part real well, divide up the labor.

    Also, if you make an assumption, make sure to state it.

    EI makes several assumptions: Max uptakes with very very high light/CO2 etc etc, packed tank, no fish. This will be tghe max level so you will never run out of nutrients if you dose this amount on a tank with fish, with less light, slower growing plants etc.

    It is assumed that you will not bottom out.

    This is the assumed lower end.

    The upper assumed end is that nothing will become 2x the week's dosing(total ppms) if you do a 50% weekly water change

    These are safe assumptions. But do they work? Pretty well.
    Better than many of the other assumptive methods with CO2/Excel.

    So you make a model, you think about the assumption you have build into it, then you test it in the real world to see if it works well.

    I'm not a programer guy at all. So Greg, you folks defintitely help out there.
    I am a chem and bio guy though, so I can test that part.
    So not everyone is a chem person, they will greatly benefit from that.

    Other issues that may be present with the fertiliator or Chuck's cal, can be addressed and hopefully fixed here. Each step up is better.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  15. a1matt

    a1matt Prolific Poster

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    First off - thankyou Quenton, this looks like a great little app. I love the fish icon :D

    If it is a simple change for you to implement, can I make a request that as well as US Gallons we have an option for litres as well?
     
  16. quenton

    quenton Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    OK done.
    If you change the units it changes the quantity to match.
    I figured if I added Litres I might as well add "Imp Gal".

    Any other units?
     
  17. a1matt

    a1matt Prolific Poster

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    thanks :)
     
  18. quenton

    quenton Guru Class Expert

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    I posted a new version. The Nutrient calculations are not changed, but I added a tank-size calculator.

    It takes into accound substrate (assuming you don't have a very porous medium, popcorn like). For gravel, sand etc, the substrate holds just about 1/3 of its volume in water -- I think its more like 100/250, I would have to check my numbers.

    It also provides for estimating any major interal objects.

    I got a big surprise. I had estimated by 29g at 22g and my 65g at 55g. After carefully calculating, I got my 29g at 19g and my 65g at 57g -- so my dosing was out by 10 to 12%. Maybe thats why my 29g is algae free and my 65g has some minor algae.

    Caclulator at: http://www.cherniaksoftware.com/homepage/Data/Nutricalc.exe

    .
     
  19. Joetee

    Joetee Prolific Poster

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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Quenton,

    I was wondering, Yesterday I changed 50% of my water. I then dosed to the spec's on your calculator. I waited about 1 hour and tested my water. My P04 was still at 0 ppm useing the Red Sea Phosphate P04 test lab. I don't know if this tester is good or not.
    After my water change, would I dose a larger dose for the first dose?
    Thanks again.

    Joe
     
  20. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
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    Re: Simple EI Dosing Calculator

    Phosphate can get used up pretty fast in the tank, but I doubt that the amount dropped to zero. We surely all know by now that the test kits we can afford are not accurate, so why do we expect them to be? In my opinion we should just dose per the EI requirements, change water periodically, and relax. If there isn't enough PO4 in the water you can be reasonably sure the tank-as-a-test-kit will indicate "low PO4" with a few small clusters of green dots on the glass.
     
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