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Seeking Advice for 40 Gallon Breeder, potential next tank

Discussion in 'Are you new to aquatic plants? Start here' started by Doc7, May 8, 2011.

  1. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    Very nice stand!

    You mentioned going with two 2215's. Right now, the 2217's are on sale for $20 more than the 2215's at DrsFosterSmith.com. You can always throttle them down, but you can't throttle them up. I'd go with the 2217's.

    I'm glad that you built a regulator.
     
  2. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    You're right about that - is there a risk of dual 2215 not having enough flow?

    On the other hand, is it safe to the pump to throttle down dual 2217s if there is too much flow? Not only do I not want too much flow for the tank, but if the CO2 doesn't have time to dissolve that is an issue as well. I don't want to destroy my pump if I throttle it down significantly...


    I've read that pressurized CO2 is cheap for refills (wouldn't know yet personally till I see how long the tank lasts of course) - and thus there is no reason to avoid surface aeration - with my 2213 is that there's about a 1/4 inch "bump" on the water surface in the middle of the tank caused by the filter spraybar outflow. So my plan was to have an inlet in each back corner of the tank, with spray bars along the upper-back angled upwards so there is water movement towards the front glass and downward and back, but with the right-most inlet married to the left-most spray bar, and vice versa.

    Some folks drill holes in the spray bar so the CO2 is getting pushed in various directions (out the very end, towards the front glass, and down towards the bottom, all simultaneously).

    I've only dealt with sandy substrate so I never had the filter output point any other direction because otherwise it would push all the sand from the back glass. With Eco in this one I guess I wouldn't have to worry too much about that.

    Would this help evenly distribute the CO2 or would it be pretty dominant in the outflow where it is injected and not so much on the other side?
     
    #22 Doc7, Aug 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2011
  3. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    You can safely throttle down the output side of the Eheim Classics using the shutoffs on the double tap connectors that come with them. This doesn't harm them. Don't do it on the intake side though. This could harm them.

    Also, I remember that Les over at TPT did some mods on Classic Eheims a couple of years ago. He found that you could swap the 2215 and 2217 impellers around. If you want to increase the flow on a 2215, put in a 2217 impeller. If you want to slow down the flow on the 2217, put in a 2215 impeller or close the handle some on the output's double tap connector.

    For $20 more on each, you get 264gph vs 164gph, more media area and the option to throttle it down if you go with the 2217's. Or, both the 2217 impellers and the 2215 impellers are $18 each plus shipping.

    You will probably have to play around with the spraybar mounting position to get good dispersion. You may need to use more than one 4 dKH drop checker too. Adding an additional powerhead(s) like the Vortech may help as well.

    Drilling more holes in the spraybar will slow down the flow coming out of each hole.

    I've read about people having one spraybar in the horizontal position and another in the vertical position. I don't know how well this works. Someone that has tried it would have better input than me.

    If it was me, I'd mount both the spraybars on the back glass in a horizontal position somewhat like you said that you have your 2213's spraybar mounted. Also, I think crossing the intakes like you mentioned is a good idea for good dispersion too (left filter intake on the right side and vice versa).
     
  4. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    Whew!

    Just purchased 2 x 2217, 5 bags Eco Complete, and an in-line heater from DFS. And another heater for the QT...

    And I thought I spent a lot of money setting up my 20 G tank : )
     
    #24 Doc7, Aug 30, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2011
  5. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    I also picked up 2215 impellers (2) just in case. I will probably start off with the 2215 impellers, leaving everything else stock (valves full open, spray bar undrilled) , and adjust from there. My goal is to have the proper flow for a balanced planted tank (as it pertains to algae some of which i understand looks for stagnant flow areas, and nutrients/co2 dispersion) yet accompany the 2nd, optional, goal of not being too high for an Angelfish.
     
  6. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    I'm glad that you went with the 2217's. I think that you will be happier in the long run.

    Doc7, I've read your posts over and over with relish!
     
  7. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    glad someone's getting amusement : ) I am sure you can tell I tend to over-think every step of this process but even without a "real" planted tank yet (had maybe 15-20 total plants in the 20-High before breaking it into artificial only to serve another purpose), 5 months of reading, researching, and building things related to fishkeeping has proven an extremely entertaining diversion in my non-work time...I am just glad that I already know I would feel overwhelmed with a fishroom full of tanks and don't need to do that to enjoy the hobby.



    I just re-tested my 20 gallon (UNplanted) tank water again with the hardness kits as I haven't bothered since May.

    It is now at a slightly lower pH, and GH is down to 13 and kH to 4. For comparison, my first test was 18 GH, 7 KH. Since the first test I have added driftwood and rocks (from a local roadside - soaked in bucket after bucket of dechlor and fish haven't minded it for over 2 months now).

    Seems like my incoming tap water has dropped as I just tested it at a KH of 3 after seeing those results. I'm still somewhere around 8 pH (hard for me to differentiate and to be honest it could be from 7.6 to the original 8.3 but it seems closer to 8 to me) but I definitely think my incoming water hardness has dropped. So maybe I don't have year-round liquid rock after all...still fairly hard but more moderate than I thought. I'm sure it will fluctuate season-to-season; and the more reading I do the more I find that I shouldn't worry too much about it anyway!
     
  8. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    Amusement isn't the way that I think about it. It is more like the boot that I need to get going again. I've had all the stuff that I need to set up a 29g, a 37g (like ShadowMac's) and a 40BR (like yours). All I need is a stand for the 40BR. DrsFosterSmith has free shipping on anything over $49 even including the heavy items and I'm going for it. My 29g grow out tank is so full of plants that I can't add anything else. It is packed! :D
     
  9. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    Got Driftwood and also the parts to build a 2" Rex Reactor...

    [​IMG]
     
    #29 Doc7, Sep 3, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2011
  10. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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  11. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    That's a nice pile of goodies!!!

    So, the Eheim 2217 is now called the "Classic 600." Has anything changed other than its name?
     
  12. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    I've only used the 2213 in the past but this seemed like a very similar set up. I already had read that it doesn't come with a basket (will be back-flushing to clean it, I suppose), it came with a few inches of the EfhiMech (noodles), inch-thick blue pad, a few inches of the substrate pro (cocoa puffs), carbon pad and fine white pad. I actually dug the carbon pads back out of the trash and put them back into the filters after I set them up, realizing that I'll probably throw the driftwood in for the few days between setting up to test equipment and plants arriving, so the more free tannin removal I get the better; I'll pull out the carbon prior to planting.

    Should I put in pre-cycled filter media when I plant the tank - or wait until I add livestock in a couple weeks?

    Waiting on my long-term solution for powerstrips (models with switches for individual outlets) which will arrive in a couple of days but I routed all of my hosing etc today. The cords/strips etc will be mounted inside the stand, so even the currently door-less version shouldn't show much of any power cords.

    [​IMG]
     
    #32 Doc7, Sep 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2011
  13. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    Interesting even with an 18 inch, 2" diameter Rex reactor on the back end, the 2217 is stronger, slightly, than the canister I swapped a 2215 impeller into. Not enough of a difference to put the 2217 impeller back in.

    I have great surface rippling and at 3 BPS (in mineral oil @ 15 PSI) I was able to get my drop checker into the yellow (no plants yet, just testing) so I know my system works. There were some micro bubbles at that high injection rate and I was able to see them dispersed throughout all areas of the tank.

    A weekend away and then plants next week! Fish are a distant thought at this point as I want to get the CO2 way under control first.
     
  14. tjbuege

    tjbuege Lifetime Charter Member
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    I'm enjoying following your thought process as you setup this tank. I might be redoing my 29-gal soon (It's 10 years old and showing signs of age). I hadn't considered 40-gal breeder before. I'll have to look into it. Looks like a nice size.

    Thanks for sharing!

    Tim
     
  15. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    May I ask which power strips they are and where did you get them?
     
  16. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    I got Rosewill RPS-200 strips from NewEgg. They're great!


    I planted the tank :

    [​IMG]

    Here is a video of it :

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpft6Hoy3uA

    Finally have my first planted tank underway! I have almost 90 more stem plants en route via mail...

    I keep getting "floaters" especially the Cabomba, although the back left (bacopa area) isn't moving too much so I'm fiddling around with spray bar placement to try to even everything out...
     
  17. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    That is a terrific looking power strip for $10. I believe that I'll get one too: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119283&Tpk=Rosewill%20RPS-200

    It looks terrific!!!

    I'm running my spray bar on the left wall of my 40BR. I'm using the optional installation set 2 with an added section so that it runs the whole distance across from front to back. This takes 4 sections to do it. The last section has a suction cup on its tip to hold it on the front glass.

    Tip for the stem floaters. This is what I do. I take a plant weight strip and trim it to length with tin snips. I fold this strip section into a "U" shape. I place the "U" shaped plant weight strip near the bottom of the stem. Then I gently close it with just enough pressure to hold it in place, but not so much that the stem is crushed. Then plant the stem in the substrate. This will hold the stems in place. When you pull them up for trimming or placement, the "U" shaped strip usually comes up with it so that you can use it over. This works very well for stem plants. If you have rosette plants that don't want to stay down, you can do this same thing except for using a longer plant weight strip. Then when they are established, you can remove this strip.



    [​IMG]
     
    #37 Left C, Sep 26, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2011
  18. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    Thanks I will try those methods!

    I'll have to see how the red and green cabomba do - I have
    90 more stem plants I got for a great deal on the way so I will have plenty to pack the tank with. Apparently cabomba does great or not at all for people and my not-bright (2 normal outpout aqualight fixtures) lighting and water quality doesn't seem to fall on the proper side of the respective spectrums : /

    How long after the initial planting should I expect to see noticeable growth? Its day 3 today and I have been dosing as per "EI light" by Tom...
     
  19. Left C

    Left C Lifetime Members
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    That plant weight tip works well if you plant each stem separate as I'm sure that's what you want to do. It makes life much easier.

    You are using the stock green spray bars and intakes. I like the grey optional kits. They come in sections, are easily adjustable and they have caps on top to aid in priming and cleaning. You can get installation kit 1 in 5/8" (16/22mm) and kit 2 in 1/2" (12/16mm) if you want. Sometimes they are on ebay dirt cheap.

    Stem plants show new growth rather quick. You should see something in around a week's time or by two weeks at the very latest.
     
  20. Doc7

    Doc7 Member

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    On the way : 70 stems of rotala green, 15 r rotundifolia, a couple variegated hygro difformis and macandra mini . For practically no money - I probably would have had nearly enough to start the tank with just that! I will re-arrange the other plants I have to see if I can get everything to fit while still leaving room and light for the HC to try to get going, and then I will try and sit tight for a few weeks and see what plants are doing well without being uprooted and bothered.
     
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