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SE Asia Biotope: 33.6G Rimless Iwagumi Rapids. Would love some expert opinions.

Discussion in 'Aquascaping' started by CL_, May 21, 2010.

  1. CL_

    CL_ Guest

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    5:52 PM
    Picked up some stones today. ~50 pounds (probably more) for $12. Not bad.
    I've wanted a rapids-esque tank for a while now.

    I could do an Asian stream biotope
    http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm#Southeast Asian River
    a southern thailand Forest creek biotope (the one listed as "Rocky Rapids")
    http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope_thai_creek.htm
    or an Indian river biotope http://fish.mongabay.com/biotope.htm#Indian/Burmese

    I'm ordering an MP 10 wavemaker/ powerhead this week. I've wanted one for a while now, and I'm finally paying up the large amount of money for one (considering it's a powerhead), but the wave feature is something I really want in this tank.

    The water will have high oxygen levels, no CO2 injection, and minimal plants, which will most likely include crypts and some willow leaf hygro (depending on which biotope I chose)

    I will be buying a 33.6 gallon rimless tank I've yet to decide on substrate, but it will most likely be a coarse beige sand (any recommendations/ links?)
    The light will be a 70 watt FNI MH thats a couple of feet above the tank. I want a crisp look, with crystal clear water haha.
    Here's the scape that I put together:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I'll most likely have the waterline two or three inches below the rim. It's a deep tank, and I don't want to worry about water sloshing over the edge.

    Plants: Plants will be crypts. Maybe some other SE Asia plant. All of the plants and fish will be natives of Vietnam/ Southeast China. I know that blyxa japonica comes from this region, and I think that it would look awesome with my scape, but it comes from marshes, and not high flow streams. Maybe I could do the blyxa anyway... at least it's from the same region.

    Fish:
    I have almost completely made up my mind on what fish to get. I'll be keeping white clouds and Reticulated hillstream loaches, along with some kind of shrimp (most likely cbs, since they are native to SE asia, and I already have a bunch).
    This is a very cool white cloud mountain minnow biotope tank (southeast asia) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JjRLqTxGQs&feature=related


    Shrimp:
    Here's some great information on CBS in the wild in Vietnam:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55526

    Wild type neocaridina heteropoda are also found in SE China/ Vietnam
    [​IMG]
    http://www.myaquariumclub.com/neocaridina-shrimp-in-the-planted-aquarium-90.html
    These should be easy enough to "make". I've had a small colony of snowballs in my 40 breeder paludarium (no journal on here) with a couple of cherries. They have had plenty of babies, but no wild coloration has appeared yet. Instead, the cherries that are in there have become very pale in coloration, and it just looks like I have a colony of snowballs. Maybe I should add more cherries?


    Flow:
    The problem with comparing the flow in a tank to the flow in a river/ stream, is that flow in a stream is measured in ft/ sec, and not GPH.
    Since one cubic foot of water is 7.48 gallons, and the MP10 (that I ordered a couple of hours ago btw) will be on one side of the tank, flowing the length of the tank, to find ft/ sec that 1600 GPH is, you need to determine how "long" one gallon of water is in the tank.
    The tank is 17.5x17.5x24"
    One cubic foot is 1728 cubic inches. Divide that by the width and height of the tank (17.5x17.5= 306.25 square inches) to get the dimensions of 7.48 gallons in the tank, and you get 17.5x17.5x5.64 inches. Divide that by 7.48, and you get that one gallon of water is 17.5x17.5x0.754 inches. Now you know that if you move one gallon of water/ hour, the water in the tank is moving at .754 inches/ hour. 1600 GPH is 0.754x1600= 1207 inches/ hour (in a tank with these dimensions). To get that into ft/ sec, divide it by 3600 seconds/hour, then divide it by 12 inches/foot, and you get 0.0279 ft/ second? (did I do this right?)

    That isn't too much flow, but it is coming from a small(ish) point. vortechs do have very wide flow, but I wouldn't be using the full 17.5x17.5", considering the water does have to come back to the pump... however, if I have it on pulse mode, the flow would be closer to the 0.0279 ft/ second, or 1/3 inches per second that I calculated above. One inch of water flow every three seconds doesn't seem like much, but I guess I'll have to wait until I get the powerhead to see.

    Lots of research still to do. What do you guys think?
     
  2. Wet

    Wet Lifetime Members
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    Nice. Biotopes are dope and maybe -- imo -- the purest form of this hobby.

    I am not totally following the math example once you divide by width and heighth to isolate length. I'd suggest doing it another way:

    You know the tank has a total of 33.6 gals.
    You know the tank is 24" long.
    so: each inch of your tank is abut 1.4 gallons (or each gallon of water is about 0.71 inches of tank).

    The rest of the math makes sense to me with the explicit statement that it is a ballpark. Flow will cancel each other out in parts of the tank and so on, but you know all that already.

    Looking forward to updates! Hillstreams are one of the coolest animals I have ever kept. Love that you are doing wild type shrimp, too. With the White clouds that's going to be a crazy breeding tank :) Maybe even self sustainable once the populations are dense enough!
     
    #2 Wet, May 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2010
  3. CL_

    CL_ Guest

    Local Time:
    5:52 PM
    haha, cool. Thanks :) I'm pretty excited about this tank. Despite how easy they are to breed, I'd be pretty proud of myself if I were able to breed white clouds in a display tank. I've never really bred egg laying fish, so it'd be pretty exciting. I'll keep you guys updated ;)
     
  4. CL_

    CL_ Guest

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    5:52 PM
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Now to make the stand :)
    TBH, I don't see much difference between this Mr. Aqua tank, and the GLA tanks of the same size...
     
  5. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    Not an expert myself, but talking about biotope, there is only one that has impressed me so far.
    It was just a small tank. But it looked very authentic, unlike many others
    which were just a nice underwater garden of native plants and aminals.

    http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/45824-malaysia-johor-state-crypts-s-biotope.html
    Unfortunately the photos are gone.

    But fortunately some of them can be seen here:
    http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org/2007.cgi?&op=showcase&category=1&vol=-1&id=164
    Believe me, it looks authentic, because I lived in the jungle in the region when I was a child.

    I think the important key is debris, such as dead leaves from the forest above,
    small dead tree branches etc., like the pic of wild shrimps you've just posted. :)
     
    #5 nipat, Jun 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  6. CL_

    CL_ Guest

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    Thanks for the comment, nipat. That really is a nice tank you linked. Hopefully mine will compare :)
     
  7. Wet

    Wet Lifetime Members
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    Very beautiful and inspiring tank -- thank you for the links nipat.

    CL_, you know, the rocks may do a good job of keeping the Crypts from spreading too much (in case you want that), and in my experience Crypts in current simply grow stronger roots to adapt, and end up very sturdy. I've got C. wendtii 'Mi Oya" wedged between driftwood right by my fliter outtake and it does great. It's been in there for at least 6 months now and only melted on introduction and when I purposefully broke off some leaves touching the glass. Just ideas.
     
    #7 Wet, Jun 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 6, 2010
  8. CL_

    CL_ Guest

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    5:52 PM
    Thanks, wet!
    Here is a better picture from tonight.
    [​IMG]
    A tank full of crypts would look very nice.. I probably should have used a more nutrient rich substrate though, tbh. I think I will be limited to moss, liverworts, and java fern (no anubias or bolbitus because they are from Africa, not SE Asia) I feel like willow moss would look really cool in this tank to cover the gravel, but I have no idea as to where it grows wild. Any ideas? What moss do you guys think would look best? Weeping moss would be really cool on the steep slope, but that stuff is hard to come by nowadays.
     
  9. CL_

    CL_ Guest

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    I got the pump today
    [​IMG]
    I'm working on the timing of the waves right now. It's not quite synchronized. These things do a good job of stirring up sediment on the sand. I can't wait to see how the fish react.
     
  10. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Likely use the slowest setting on the MP10, I think the Starougyne would be a good choice, low growing, easy to prune to shape, very well rooted, likes fast flow and is readily cough cough hack hack..........available:)
    Hair grass is another option, belem would do well, Downoi also, Java fern, Crypts will get pretty big.

    You do not need sediment rich ferts for any of these, but it helps, see osmocoat tabs etc.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  11. CL_

    CL_ Guest

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    5:52 PM
    Dangit! This is the third time that I will have had to type this somewhat lengthy post (with each attempt the post becomes shorter haha- I keep hitting the wrong button to reply to the thread)

    Anyway, Thanks for the reply!

    Do you know the general region that staurogyne grows wild? I think it would look pretty cool with all of the moss that I plan on adding. You're right about the crypts, though. I think that they would get too tall for this scape.

    So far I am really impressed with the MP10. Right now I have it on short pulse mode to run at 100% speed for 3/4 of a second, then stop completely for 3/4 of a second. With a pulse this short the pump doesn't have enough time to move the water at the full 1575 GPH, but it does create an awesome rippling effect on the surface that you would expect to see in nature. After 14 hours of short pulse, the pump goes into night mode, which runs on "constant mode" at 50% of the speed set during the day. Right now the pump doesn't even agitate the sand in the front of the tank, so I'm hoping that it won't be too much for the white clouds (I doubt I'll have to worry about the hillstream loaches- they do literally climb waterfalls in nature, after all haha) If it does seem to be too much for the white clouds, it's easy enough to turn down the speed. I'm pretty excited to see how the fish will react. I'll try to get a video uploaded ASAP showing the surface agitation- looks pretty cool, IMO.

    Thanks again for the reply!
     
  12. nipat

    nipat Guru Class Expert

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    #12 nipat, Jun 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2010
  13. CL_

    CL_ Guest

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    Awesome picture, nipat! However, I would feel more comfortable growing UG if I had aquasoil in this tank. I have seen people grow UG in eco complete, but I don't think it would do well in a somewhat low tech tank :( It is really tempting though, because it would look awesome on such a steep slope.
     
  14. CL_

    CL_ Guest

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    here is a video of the wave action I have set in this tank. I could get a lot more (I was getting a 2 inch wave lol) but the wave didn't look natural, whereas this one does
    Video
     
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