This site is supported by the advertisements on it, please disable your AdBlocker so we can continue to provide you with the quality content you expect.
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
    Dismiss Notice

Sad Rotala Macranda & others

Discussion in 'Are you new to aquatic plants? Start here' started by trd1, May 21, 2008.

  1. trd1

    trd1 Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2008
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    I am having problems with my Rotala Macranda, Alternanthera Reineckii & Amazon Sword. The Rotala & Alternanthera are looking very shabby, the once bright red leaves are looking very pale & becoming transparent. New growth is coming out very pale. My Sword is starting to sprout some leaves but they also seem transparent (they are only 2-3cm long at this stage). The Water Sprite is looking sad as well. Also the Micranthemun Umbrosum started to grow after starting EI then stopped a few months later.

    The other plant such as my Lace Fern, Crypts, Elodea, Anubias & Lilaepsis Brasiliensis are growing fantastic.

    I have a 100g tank (7 months olds) using city water through a whole house filtration system consisting of 5micron sediment cartridge & carbon (coconut)cartridge. The water is very soft at 1-2 Deg GH & KH, Ph 7.4 - 7.6, TDS 25ppm.

    Substrate is Dupla Ground with a layer of Dupla Laterite (put in 7 months ago at start up).

    My lighting is 8x39w T5 HO 900mm Fluoros. I run 4xT5 globes from 0700-2200 with a 4 hr break in the middle of the day (11hrs total). From 1400-1900 the other 4xT5 globes come on as well (5 hrs) with the others. I do not use CO2 (and my wife won't let me!!). So far since starting EI, 3 months ago, even the GSA has dissapeared. No algae what so ever.

    I have about 60-70 small fish (tetras, platties, SAE, ottos, corys, BN & glass Catfish, rainbows, halfbeaks & shrimp).

    Dosing is EI once a week with 50%WC every 2 weeks (we are on water restrictions, so we are trying to do our bit)

    2 tsp Seachem Equilibrium
    1 tsp Epsom Salts
    3/5 tsp KNO3
    1/5 tsp KH2PO4

    On the week of the 50% WC I also add 6 tsp conditioning salts

    Measuring with a Hagen test kit just after dosing:
    TDS 365ppm
    GH 4-5 Deg
    KH 1-2 Deg
    PH 6.8 (come down in the last month from 7.4-7.6)
    PO4 3-4ppm (varies)
    NO3 20-50ppm (varies)

    Finally my questions are:

    Do I need to add CaSO4, iron, more Equilibrium or modify other aspects of my current EI?
    I know some of these plants are high light need, but i think I have enough lighting for a non CO2 tank (if not too much at this point).

    If any one has any ideas & could point me in the right direction I would be grateful.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. tedr108

    tedr108 Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    514
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    2 things I notice:

    1) You are dosing very low on the macro nutrients. (Nitrate testing kits are notoriously bad. If you have not calibrated yours, it could be way off.)

    2) You do not mention dosing any micronutrients (e.g. Tropica Plant Nutrition or CSM+B), except for Mg in the Epsom salts.

    I only know EI and follow it, so I cannot say what is specifically causing your issues -- probably a combination of the above 2 items.
     
  3. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    88
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    With the amount of light you have, both in wattage and in the effectiveness of the wattage, you are driving the plants go grow fast, but by not providing CO2 you are not giving them the building blocks they need for that growth. My guess is that your problems all come back to that. If you are going to do without CO2, at least use Excel, which will be pretty expensive for that size tank, and cut down the light intensity.

    Why does your wife insist on no CO2? There is almost no risk of any kind in using pressurized CO2 and the benefits are big.

    Using aquarium salts or conditioning salts is good for the profit margin of the company selling them, but as far as I know, it does nothing for the plants or fish.
     
  4. trd1

    trd1 Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2008
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    Thanks for the responses. I have gone back & re read some of the articles in the EI forum namely 'EI light: for those less techy folks ' & 'Non CO2 methods, another method for different goals' to get a better understanding. It can get a bit confusing for a newbie at the start (& now).

    Essentially the reason why we have chosen a non co2 method is that initially my wife wanted a fish only tank (as she had kept a few years ago, before we married) & I wanted a full planted tank. So we compromised :D. We (I) sold her 40g tank & bought the 100g.;)

    This is where this forum has been invaluable with the wealth of experience & knowledge. If I had not found this forum I do not know what sort of mess my tank would have been in. It is amazing how many people in LFSs, that I have come across that look at me strange when I mention that I dose using EI. Not to mention the shock & horror when I tell them that I do a 50% WC. I always refer them to this site.

    My understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) is that the main difference between co2 & non co2 is the frequency of the dosing (& lighting wpg). I guess I got an idea about dosing from the 'NonCO2 methods' post. Since I am using Seachem Equilibrium I was under the impression that it contained the needed micronutrients.

    :confused: However, should I also be adding some Seachem Fluorish or Fluorish Trace with my current x1 weekly dosing?

    I cut down on the amount of time the lights are on, since 3-4 weeks ago I bumped it up & I noticed today that the anubias have started to get some darker algae on the perimeter of some of the older leaves (?BBA) & GSA on the whole leaf surface (I have quickly cut them off!!).

    :confused: Any approximate indication on the amount of light per day using 1.5wpg? (or ? less)

    The conditioning salts came free with the tank, so I use it to bump up the TDS for the livebearers. I get your point though. If I bought every salt/medication/chemical that the LFS recommend I would need to get a another job to pay for it.

    Thanks for your replies

    Corrado
     
  5. Carissa

    Carissa Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    If your GH is that low, you should probably be adding calcium too...unless that is already contained in the Flourish product you are adding (pool hardness increaser = calcium chloride, a cheap solution). Perhaps you should be adding K2SO4 as well for more potassium. I add about 1/4 tsp of KNO3 + 1/4 tsp of K2SO4 to my 32g tank weekly, it's co2 but low light, moderate plant load. Adding the calcium + the magnesium will keep your GH sufficiently high for livebearers. I wouldn't add anything with sodium in it, if anything it will harm your plants. Without co2 you probably want to shoot for around 2wpg, or gradually reduce your light intensity until things look better. The length of time the lights are on does not really have much to do with the intensity. True, the longer lights are left on, the longer plants will have to grow each day and the more nutrients they will use up. But with a non-co2 tank, the possibility of algae is such that it can be good to limit the photoperiod too....somewhere between 8 - 10 hours is probably average.

    Also, personally, I find it better to change 25% 1x/weekly rather than waiting two weeks, this is what I do on my tanks. It keeps things more stable over the long term, which is always good for plants and fish. The 50% water changes can be hard on things when you are dealing with a low KH or GH since reconstitution of the water is always going to throw things off by a percentage each time. My tap water has 0 KH and GH, and after switching to only 25% water changes, I stopped losing fish randomly and my plants are taking off.
     
  6. VaughnH

    VaughnH Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,011
    Likes Received:
    88
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    T5 lights, with individual reflectors are at least 50% more efficient is producing light intensity than PC bulbs. That's why I think 2 watts per gallon is too much, for those lights. Excel is good, but no where near as effective as CO2, so you can't always get by using that much light when you have Excel. This is such an inexact science, with so many variables, most of which we never even think to try to control, that it will be a long time before we can confidently say that X watts per gallon of any kind of light is "just right" for any tank.
     
  7. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Lifetime Charter Member
    Lifetime Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    Hi,
    I agree with hoppy. In fact, unless I've misinterpreted your lighting schedule, it appears from your initial post that from the hours of 1400-1900 all 8 of the 39 watt bulbs are on. If that is the case then there are 5 hours every day when you are running over 3 WPG. It's amazing that your tank is so beautiful under those condition without CO2.

    In the long run though you cannot do both the low tech NON-CO2 as well as the high tech methods at the same time. If you want to do non-CO2 then simply disable 4 or even 5 of the 8 bulbs permanently and carry on without doing any water changes. In that way the dosing schedule that you have will better fit the lower energy input of the reduced lighting. Both the CO2 uptake demand and the nutrient uptake demand will be lowered. You could supplement with Excel/Easycarbo but that gets expensive after a while especially for this size tank.

    I think you've done impressively well to get this far without CO2 injection and with that level of lighting. Brilliant stuff.:cool:

    Cheers,
     
  8. Carissa

    Carissa Guru Class Expert

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    Sorry, I forgot to take into account the type of lighting involved.
     
  9. trd1

    trd1 Junior Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2008
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Local Time:
    3:11 AM
    Thanks everyone for your responses (some food for thought). They are very encouraging.

    I will certainly cut down on the lighting. I have adjusted the 4 x 39w T5 from 0700-1100 & 1600-2200 (daily total of 10hrs-as per previous lighting period when there was no GSA). Hopefully the 5 hrs break does not distrupt things too much.

    I will be ordering the Seachem Fluorish & will be adding 15ml weekly with the dosing regime next. I have also changed the KNO3 from 3/5 to 4/5 teaspoon x1 week. I also replenished my Nitrate kit & it certainly needs to be calibrated!

    I will see how this goes & then down the track might try the weekly 25%wc. I want to introduce each change over a 3-4 week period so I can see if there are any changes to the plants.

    Once again thanks for all your suggestions & help

    Corrado
     
Loading...

Share This Page