Running Big tank

[gomgom]

Hello, I'm new here and not totally understanding english.

I have a very big project for summer 2013, installing a 4200Liter planted tank.

dimension will be : 400cm x 150cm x 70cm

I would like to make a very nice scape, Iwagumi styl like amano's 7meters tank...

I'm really getting headhache to find what kind of substrate/ferti system to use . I have some trouble to determinate what light to use. I was thinking about DIY LED with 50W led units or using T5 but it's hard to know how many units I need to cover all the ground surface (6m²) as I don't want dark areas...

I hope you all could help me since the cost of material are very impressive in this size, so each mistake cost an arm... ^^

 

[Tom Barr]

t5 lighting is excellent.
DIY lighting LED's etc, might cause you several issues.

ADA AS is good stuff IME.

Those who move their plants around a great deal... tend not to like it.
People that do not move their plants around much: tend to like it.

Noise will also big a large factor.

 

[gomgom]

I was really thinking about flourite because I can keep it forever... What about ada as? I Would like to make this tank to live around 5/6 years without redoing the ground...

T5 seems Good , giesmann matrix for example..

 

[Tom Barr]

Which country are you located?
Germany?

My 180 Gallon tank has ADA As that is 7 years old now.

Flourite can scratch the glass if you get any of it between the scrub pad and the glass when cleaning algae.

ADA As is soft and does not scratch glass.

ATI lighting is excellent, about the best that the reef hobby has found and the planted hobby as well.
You really get a lot more light out of these fixtures, seems like "hype", but it's not.
They really do put out 50% mor elight than many other brands.

Lots of bulb choices also, good even lighting.

 

[gomgom]

Ok Thanks ! Do Know How Many ati ramps do I need to cover all the ground ?

Btw, I live in France

 

[Gerryd]

Hi,

Have you worked out your filtration yet? Do you want to use c02 at all?

I will respond in a bit with more thoughts on lighting based on my experience. No huge tank like yours, but lots of experience with different types of lights..

The ADA AS is nice but is not best if you like to replant or you NEED to replant often based on design...

Remember that is is hard to trim a large tank whilst bending over

Congrats on such a new large project...

 

[gomgom]

Yes, I think I'll use CO² since I want a very large carpet of HC or glosso. About Filtration, I'm going on 2 x 450Liters decantation tank, since I have good results with that in all my other tanks.

Atm , I think I'll use ADA AS + CO² + dry powders. I'm just scary about all kind of problem I could have in such tank... If I got an algae invasion It will be a real pain to clear everydays till it ends...

 

[Tom Barr]

Algae is 90% a issue with CO2 and perhaps too much light. ATI has the dimmer computer so you can adjust and program the light intensity and duration.
They are also more efficient per unit of energy used than any other light system I have found.

HC is a little more of an issue to trim...........Gloss is very forgiving to trim. I would opt for Gloss on a large tank.
The suction disc used to hold large glass panels might be a good idea to use for trimming as a foot hold or a hand hold. ADA's large 4 and 7 meter tanks shows them using them on the inside of the tank.
These cost about 70-120$ USD but 2 of them might be well worth it for you.

To reduce algae, you will be doing large water changes for the 1st two months, I'd do them every 3 days, 50-70%.
Add lots of CO2 and have very good current to mix the water.

After 2-3 weeks, then you might add Otto catfish Amano shrimp, RCS etc. Add a lot of algae eaters.
This is when you will will adjust the CO2 carefully and make sure not to gas the algae eaters.

The water changes will save you and prevent errors.
After 1-2 months, then go to 2x a week, 50-60% water changes.

I would hire a plumber to add a large hot/cold water line and drain for the aquarium. This way you can easily drain and refill the tank without much trouble.
Trust me, you will need to drain and refill this tank many many times and any time you need to get deep inside the tank.

Some people and client's have used automation, where they change say 400 liters daily in a 4000 liter tank. They use a float valve in the sump to refill and a small pump on a timer to drain the water.... upstream from the float refill.
This is set for about 30-45 min after the lights come on and the automated dosing system comes on about the same time. Some people use Easy carbo in Europe, or DIY glutuaraldehyde for large tanks. This can also help for new start ups and prevent algae.

KNO3
KH2PO4
CMS+B or any similar trace mix
GH booster or MgSO4/K2SO4 if desired.

A large sump with sponge blocks will work well but make sure the wet/dry section is sealed and the over flow is splashing is minimized, otherwise you will degas your CO2 and there will be many issues.

 

[Tom Barr]

Also, pictures help a great deal and explain things much easier for everyone.

 

[gomgom]

I dont find Any pics about the suction Disc ? Btw I'm waiting for the final pics of the tank to Know all the specs ( Numbers of supports pièces...)

 

[dutchy]

Imagine the CO2 setup this tank needs.....

It might be worth it to consider a low light non CO2 setup.

 

[gomgom]

Well, I was thinking of 4 x 10kg pressurised bottles... One per waterpomp. Knowing the Whole project's cost, CO2 is not an issue

 

[dutchy]

I think planning the CO2 setup would take some serious planning to create one with enough capacity. Big pumps, custom made reactors etc. Tom knows more, he has experience with big tanks. If you do a search on "behemoth" you could find some useful info.

 

[Tom Barr]

The behemoth is simply a pair of 2500 liter/hr pumps with CO2 fed into them and then the out flow goes into the return pumps. So the impellers chop up the CO2, then the return pump does it again........then a maybe 2 meters later, the CO2 mix comes into the tank.

 

[Tom Barr]

I dont find Any pics about the suction Disc ? Btw I'm waiting for the final pics of the tank to Know all the specs ( Numbers of supports pièces...)

http://toyosh.en.alibaba.com/produc...pad_sucking_disc_pump_action_suction_cup.html

Mine ran about 75-100$ each and I have 4 of them, each will hold about 90 kg, I use them for moving rimless aquariums, but they can be used on the inside of the tank, as a hand hold while you work or a foot hold. this way you do not mes sup the soil or aquascaping.

 

[gomgom]

ok thanks !

I have an other question, Where to place outflow tubes ?

I'm using two overflox box in the back corner of the tank to get the water in the twin sump. There will be 4 recirculation pomps and I thought to get 4 outflow as well. I made a little pics to show what I mean, but I dont really know where to place the outflow exit in order to not disturb the fish/plants
[attachment=1148:name]

 

[Tom Barr]

If you use overflow boxes, then you'll have the returns come back through those as well.

I would not use overflow boxes, they distract from the tank, instead, a weir box at the upper part and prefilter, then a bean animal like pair or 3-4 pipes leading to the sump is much wiser, loses less CO2 and makes much less noise(silent or nearly so).
The over flow weir box can be placed on the outside of the tank so not to take up any precious spacing inside the tank.


See 7th post down:
http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/showthread.php?t=2668

ADA/Amano does this for large tanks as do I.
Most public aquariums also do this same method.

You might run 2 overflow boxes, then the returns should likely use Loc line type returns so you can direct the flow anywhere you chose.
I would suggest 2 very well made external pumps for the returns.

Iwaki RTL 100 or similar.

 

[gomgom]

Well It would be great but the Aquarium's builder Doesn't do this. so I will get 2 things like this one :[attachment=1151:name]

 

[gomgom]

Supposing I'll follow the same fert I'm using on all my tanks, it would need this each week : [attachment=1152:name]

What do you mean about it ?

 

[Tom Barr]

Well It would be great but the Aquarium's builder Doesn't do this. so I will get 2 things like this one :View attachment 3318

You will want to put ball valves on the stand pipes that over flow down into the sump. This will regulate the flow and air and noise. The stand pipes in the over flow box will be about 5cm or so below the water line, so they will be not quite as high as the weir overflow. This will also reduce the degassing and noise.
Sad thing is the overflows will take up a lot of space inside the aquarium. If you spend a lot of $ and time on a large tank, I think you should get exactly what you want. It's your money and they are doing what you want.