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Rotala Walichii

Discussion in 'General Plant Topics' started by Brian20, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    Finally I have succes with HC, and a few of red plants, like althernantera and I has rotala macandra (die by my fault) I tried rotala walichii like 3, 4 times and I cant grow it, I use ferts, good light, Pressurised CO2, and all and still it not grow and die. I have a friend that have it growing in 10G tank and he only have good light and CO2, maybe flourish dose. I think that it was a lack of mg, and Ca because I dont dose with these in the past, I have Ca and Mg dry ferts now. Also I dont make a lot of w/c. Maybe the plants uses almost all the Ca and Mg in the water column and it doesnt help stem plants. I also have crypts but the feed form the rich bottom substrate (red clay mixed with mineralized soil) so they dont show lack of nutrients. Now Im dosing with CaCL, MgSO4, Plantex, K2H2PO4, K2SO4, KNO3. Maybe I change from CaCl and MgSO4 to Grumpy GH booster. pH: below 7 maybe 6.5. CO2, 3bps
     
  2. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    I never got it growing in my 60gal, I suspect substrate and CO2 mainly

    In my nano, a very close water, same fert, but better CO2 (misting), much lower light (0.9wpg) and organic substrate, it grows increadibly. It even responds to trimming with side shoots so that I even don't have to retop it as it is supposed to be done

    [​IMG]

    I think it is a very CO2 sensitive plant that does better in low light high CO2
     
  3. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    It also seems to do much better with sofe water also.
    It's a "weed" once it starts growing.

    I think it does best being uprooted and replanted the tops only.
    You can top it and leave the bottom portion to resprout, but this takes a couple of weeks, better to top and plant those.
    Makes a good indicator plant, so does A reineckii:

    Here both plants are using EI, ADA AS:
    [​IMG]
    coralredwrkpencilfishtank.jpg
    coralredwrkpencilfishtank.jpg


    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  4. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    4 plants that you have in the pictures I also have they growing well. I think that maybe not making semanal w/c causes the problem? You can tell me water parameters.
     
  5. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    good looking tank!
     
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I can grow it fine without many water changes, that does not matter.
    CO2 seems to be the big issue, it also does very well in very soft low Ca/KH water.
    I think Ca/Mg plays very little role in issues you or others might have.

    Water parameters do not tell you much, consistent good CO2/light, that is far more telling.
    I dose the same I have for most tanks for the last few years:

    ADA As sediment
    Light HQI about 24" above the tank, PAR is about 50-60 at the surface of the sediment.
    CO2 in line venturi
    Rena XP3 filter
    Tank; 38 US Gal
    15 ppm NO3, 4-5ppm PO4, .5-.8 ppm of Fe 3x a week
    Tap water change(KH 1.2 or so, GH 3) followed by 1 teaspoon of GH booster after(50-80% WC).

    Nothing special really.

    Tap is nice here, had some trouble when I used really high KH with this plant. Did fine at KH of 5.5, but not at 11KH, might have been me, not the plant.
    Hard to say for 100% certain.

    The above parmeters are something I can say as far as good growth and what is/is not the issue.
    It's only when there is a success, can we rule some things out perhaps.

    If I cannot grow it at high KH well, then the result is inconclusive.
    Unfortunately, many assume it proves that the plant cannot be grown at high KH.
    It's inconclusive, but folks want to make a conclusion when they really cannot say.




    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  7. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    well, everybody knows that this is a hard plant, not all people can grow this plants so easily. It is more equipment and parameters issue. Well, looking for the problem, we narrow the search. I have the right equipment, maybe less light this can be part the problem but I will take that out by now. my pH is in the 6.5 with CO2, and I dont know without it but this not is relevant. GH or KH, well, now I dont know these parameters. In fact, I never know GH because I think that the test that I have is expired (always says that the water have high GH, even the rain water). I never dose GH Booster but I will star to dose it. Well the result is: as you say can be kH but I think I have kH 6, I will check that today. Or can be the GH. Also you dose 3x more Fe than I. So:
    Principal problems:
    1. High KH
    2. Low GH
    3. Los Iron
    Maybe a problem:
    1. Lower light.

    I think, I will make a 50% or more w/c, then dose GH booster, and then the weekly fertilitation.
     
  8. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Wierd, my earlier reply got munched again... I've got it growing in soft water, no CO2, and pool filter sand as a substrate. No substrate enrichment. Dosing is EI for a 40 gallon tank but I only dose after a water change and maybe 3/8-1/2 tsp GH booster for whatever that brings it to. Light might be significant, or not. Flow might be an issue. I've got it by itself with nothing blocking the flow. I'm not sure if that's a significant variable here or not.

    -
    S
     
  9. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    In my previous post is also growing with only 0.2ppm Fe total /week, 0.9wpg PC-light (so the U shape makes it even less effiecient then standard T5), but KH 2 and GH 5. So you can rule out light and Fe. Also shoggoth43 running it with no CO2 doesn't mean CO2 is not important. Non CO2 is usually very low light, so a good CO2/light balance.

    I really think that CO2/light balance is the most important factor. Maybe a soft water will help
     
  10. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    In this case the no co2 is pretty decent light. This is in one of the tanks under my Tek5. So 104W of T5HO. 2/3 of the tank is directly under the fixture, and the rotala is in the 1/3 not directly under the fixture, but it's still fairly well lit since the fixture is 12" off the surface due to the height of the other tank. I'm still not sure why I don't have more algae in there other than maybe decent surface movement replenishes the algae, or the fact that I throw so many different plants in the to float around reduces the light directly under the fixture to sane levels. The rotala is in the clear above and all around though, so it's a mystery.

    -
    S
     
  11. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    thats narrow more to the only suspect is Kh. Thanks everybody I will check KH.
     
  12. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    I've not had any issues unless it was KH(too high)/CO2(too low).
    Grown it for many years nicely.

    You can also do the CO2 mist directly into it with some current, the plant does well with current IME.
    Then try some RO water blend with tap if interested in soft KH plants.

    There are 300-400 species to chose from, I'd not worry too much over it if RO is out of the question.
    Maybe 10-20 need the low KH's, most do not. All plants do well in low KH's and CO2 etc however.
    How low is debatable, I do not think there's any defined cut off point. Maybe 5 to 8 degrees?
    I could grow it nicely at 5.5 KH.

    I did not try uch when I had tap at KH 11, or 16.
    At 16 KH, I also had Mg at 52ppm in my GH, so that played some role in the troubles perhaps.
    So I cut tap by blending 3:1 RO to tap, this gave me 25% the KH or 4 degrees:
    I do not have a good shot of the plant, but these others are notoriously picky about KH:

    [​IMG]

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  13. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

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    well, I check kh, kh in tank: 11dKH there is the problem. Still kh in the filtered water that I use for w/c: 7dKH so I can resolve the problem doing weekly w/c. I have like 2 months only refilling the tank, still all plants (I dont have walichii now) and fish looks nice. Maybe refilling or topping cause higher KH.
     
  14. jonny_ftm

    jonny_ftm Guru Class Expert

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    Now that you say it...
    I also was finding it one of the rarely stem plants I tried doing well in a strong CO2 mist current. The high current doesn't seem to slower its growth despite the plants are at 1in of outflow sometimes and compeltely curved and dansing in the current
     
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