Rotala Hra Stems Breaking Please Help.

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
I recently got Rotala HRA submerged, and i notice everyday some stems become black and break, but some keep growing.

Tank is new 154 liters, Total water volume approx 105 liters

API test kits

Aquarium water
KH 0
GH 2-3
No3 15-20

Tap water
KH 3
GH 3
No3 5

Dosing 2ml Tropica Premium 5days a week

5 drops reeflowers (for planted tank) potassium

2ml flourish excel daily

Co2 2.3 bps

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
Here is a closeup, its been a week.
a77053e9540f75b5dafab082bfc1f5a5.jpg


Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 

Pauld738

Member
Feb 24, 2019
51
18
8
Modesto, CA
Could still be acclimation issues at 1 week?

But you are dosing Ferts different than most. On top of your Gh being too low. Gh needs to be at the very least 4 dGh, preferably closer to 6 or more

And why are you dosing Excel and co2? Typically you run one or the other. If for algae control it really should be used only as "one time" treatments. Not dosed regularly.

Since you are injecting co2 here is my take...

I would highly recommend looking into the EI method of dosing Ferts. Basically you dose Macros (N,P,K) 3x per week and micros (your Tropical Premium) 3x per week alternating days.

You can also take a look at the PPS pro method which splits the dosing up into daily doses at lower levels.

I will tell you that I started out using PPS pro and quickly realized that was not enough. I now use a slightly modified version of EI dosing. Macros all at once at the beginning of the week (front loading) with micros 3x. Experiences differ among those using PPS Pro.

As it sit's right now you are only dosing micros, way too much, and K. You don't have enough nitrates, Gh (Ca:Mg), and more than likely phosphates.

And then there is your co2. 2 bps means nothing without some kind of baseline. Are you using a drop checker? Or better yet test pH of completely degassed tank water (let sit out for more than a day or run an air stone) and then test pH right before lights out. What is that difference? You are looking for roughly a 1.0 pH drop.

My tank pictured below (just trimmed the mini red way back) is running at about a 1.2 pH drop. RO water with 1 dKh. 7-8 dGh. Front loaded macros. Micros 3x per week. Nitrates at around 20ppm.

Shot glass is holding down my Monte Carlo which finally let go, lol!
752f384bf0fcc850ab11b9044b29fe57.jpg
d9985ceb5e3c940eb12f0ca7ccf8f70c.jpg


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: nanomania

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
Could still be acclimation issues at 1 week?

But you are dosing Ferts different than most. On top of your Gh being too low. Gh needs to be at the very least 4 dGh, preferably closer to 6 or more

And why are you dosing Excel and co2? Typically you run one or the other. If for algae control it really should be used only as "one time" treatments. Not dosed regularly.

Since you are injecting co2 here is my take...

I would highly recommend looking into the EI method of dosing Ferts. Basically you dose Macros (N,P,K) 3x per week and micros (your Tropical Premium) 3x per week alternating days.

You can also take a look at the PPS pro method which splits the dosing up into daily doses at lower levels.

I will tell you that I started out using PPS pro and quickly realized that was not enough. I now use a slightly modified version of EI dosing. Macros all at once at the beginning of the week (front loading) with micros 3x. Experiences differ among those using PPS Pro.

As it sit's right now you are only dosing micros, way too much, and K. You don't have enough nitrates, Gh (Ca:Mg), and more than likely phosphates.

And then there is your co2. 2 bps means nothing without some kind of baseline. Are you using a drop checker? Or better yet test pH of completely degassed tank water (let sit out for more than a day or run an air stone) and then test pH right before lights out. What is that difference? You are looking for roughly a 1.0 pH drop.

My tank pictured below (just trimmed the mini red way back) is running at about a 1.2 pH drop. RO water with 1 dKh. 7-8 dGh. Front loaded macros. Micros 3x per week. Nitrates at around 20ppm.

Shot glass is holding down my Monte Carlo which finally let go, lol!
752f384bf0fcc850ab11b9044b29fe57.jpg
d9985ceb5e3c940eb12f0ca7ccf8f70c.jpg


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
So u mean No3 15-20 is low?
What about dosing specialized tropica nutrition along with premium? As it has NP and more K?

Will stop dosing excel, dosed for algae issue, that too 1/4th recomended.

Should i use Seachem Equilibrium for GH and Seachem alkaline buffer for KH?

Yes, im using Drop checker.

I keep lights on for 6hrs and co2 2hrs before lights on, and closes 1hr before lights are off.

Do u suggest investing in a Po4 and K testkits? Ph too??

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 

Pauld738

Member
Feb 24, 2019
51
18
8
Modesto, CA
I got mixed up on your nitrates! For some reason I thought you had zero or near that. Even though you clearly stated otherwise . Maybe I focused on your tap water results, lol!

So that makes things interesting. 15-20 is good for nitrates and you wouldn't want to necessarily add more. Although nitrates from Ferts are different than nitrates from food/waste.

You could start dosing Specialized but if you do than stop with the reeflowers. Watch nitrates. It wouldn't be the worst to be in the 30's as I have seen some tanks go that high, if not higher, with Fert nitrates. Not that I do that though :).

Or maybe find a source of just phosphate. Look at Seachem?

But then what happens if your nitrates drop? After plants really fill in? It's a tough call.

I use dry Ferts and mix up my own solutions. That way I can adapt to different conditions. Like nitrates getting too high or too low, which I have done several times on this tank.

Yes to Equilibrium, but realize it will add a fair amount of K. And don't forget about the iron it introduces. Again I use dry Ca and Mg and mix my own for that reason. Not sure if the extra K will negatively affect the tank, I used to dose Equilibrium and I couldn't tell the difference after the switch. It does take a lot of K to do that and you could just reduce your reeflowers to compensate.

No to Seachem alkaline. Your kh is fine where it is.

I see tanks turning co2 off 1 hr before lights out from time to time but I don't understand the concept. Mine runs till lights out. Just fyi :)

Po4/K testing might be good but I've never tested for it. I test pH with a pH monitor, gh, kh and nitrates. I let the nitrates tell me if my Ferts dosing is good or not. Maybe if I had more finnicky stem plants I would start.


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: nanomania

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
I got mixed up on your nitrates! For some reason I thought you had zero or near that. Even though you clearly stated otherwise . Maybe I focused on your tap water results, lol!

So that makes things interesting. 15-20 is good for nitrates and you wouldn't want to necessarily add more. Although nitrates from Ferts are different than nitrates from food/waste.

You could start dosing Specialized but if you do than stop with the reeflowers. Watch nitrates. It wouldn't be the worst to be in the 30's as I have seen some tanks go that high, if not higher, with Fert nitrates. Not that I do that though :).

Or maybe find a source of just phosphate. Look at Seachem?

But then what happens if your nitrates drop? After plants really fill in? It's a tough call.

I use dry Ferts and mix up my own solutions. That way I can adapt to different conditions. Like nitrates getting too high or too low, which I have done several times on this tank.

Yes to Equilibrium, but realize it will add a fair amount of K. And don't forget about the iron it introduces. Again I use dry Ca and Mg and mix my own for that reason. Not sure if the extra K will negatively affect the tank, I used to dose Equilibrium and I couldn't tell the difference after the switch. It does take a lot of K to do that and you could just reduce your reeflowers to compensate.

No to Seachem alkaline. Your kh is fine where it is.

I see tanks turning co2 off 1 hr before lights out from time to time but I don't understand the concept. Mine runs till lights out. Just fyi :)

Po4/K testing might be good but I've never tested for it. I test pH with a pH monitor, gh, kh and nitrates. I let the nitrates tell me if my Ferts dosing is good or not. Maybe if I had more finnicky stem plants I would start.


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
So then what do i dose only for calcium and magnesium? KH is 0-1 (im confused as per API)

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 

Pauld738

Member
Feb 24, 2019
51
18
8
Modesto, CA
I'm assuming you have an active substrate, which is why your kh is lowering?

If so, I wouldn't mess with it. The substrate will just pull it out again. Once it gets "filled up" you should see the kh rise to your tap levels. Slow is good though. For both kh and gh changes.

And api is difficult to tell at or below 1 kh. I have a Hanna kh test kit that gives me much better resolution and I have found that the kh doesn't really go to zero. With active substrates.

I buy CaSo4 and MgSo4 from Nilocg.com but you can get those anywhere really. Even Epsom salt for Mg. You would just have to source Ca then. But since it is so cheap for almost a lifetime supply I just get both Ca and Mg together. :)




Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: nanomania

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
I'm assuming you have an active substrate, which is why your kh is lowering?

If so, I wouldn't mess with it. The substrate will just pull it out again. Once it gets "filled up" you should see the kh rise to your tap levels. Slow is good though. For both kh and gh changes.

And api is difficult to tell at or below 1 kh. I have a Hanna kh test kit that gives me much better resolution and I have found that the kh doesn't really go to zero. With active substrates.

I buy CaSo4 and MgSo4 from Nilocg.com but you can get those anywhere really. Even Epsom salt for Mg. You would just have to source Ca then. But since it is so cheap for almost a lifetime supply I just get both Ca and Mg together. :)




Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
So i dont buy seachem equilibrium?

Will it be ok to dose calcium sulphate only as tropica has mag.

Also can u suggest me for testkits? Should i buy? Especially potassium? And po4?

Today i saw my checker colour nearing yellow. I have reduced one hour and bubbles from 2.75bps approx to 2bps. I guess i lost 3 of my amanos coz of low kh and gh.

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 

Pauld738

Member
Feb 24, 2019
51
18
8
Modesto, CA
Tropica Premium right?

Tropica Premium is a micro fertilizer. It has Manganese (Mn). But no Magnesium (Mg). Magnesium (Mg) is what you need for Gh. And your plants/shrimp.

And really both Calcium (Ca) and Magnesium (Mg) can be considered a macro fertilizer even though it gets left out of macro fertilizer talk.

I think Seachem Equilibrium is an excellent product. It just has some extra stuff with it. Notable Potassium and Iron. I used Equilibrium in the beginning myself but moved to Ca:Mg dry Ferts since I was already making my own solutions and had a good scale.

And since you are dosing potassium separately, it would be super easy to reduce that dose to make up for the extra K in Equilibrium. So I see no problems with using Equilibrium.

I really don't have any experience with K and PO4 test kits. I do see Salifert recommended though when the subject comes up. But that doesn't mean others aren't as good.

Sorry to hear about your Amanos. That's tough when that happens.

It's not your Kh though. The co2 overdose and the low Gh is what wreaks havoc on shrimp. Too many Amano shrimp running in ADA tanks for kh to be the issue. :)




Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: nanomania

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
Tropica Premium right?

Tropica Premium is a micro fertilizer. It has Manganese (Mn). But no Magnesium (Mg). Magnesium (Mg) is what you need for Gh. And your plants/shrimp.

And really both Calcium (Ca) and Magnesium (Mg) can be considered a macro fertilizer even though it gets left out of macro fertilizer talk.

I think Seachem Equilibrium is an excellent product. It just has some extra stuff with it. Notable Potassium and Iron. I used Equilibrium in the beginning myself but moved to Ca:Mg dry Ferts since I was already making my own solutions and had a good scale.

And since you are dosing potassium separately, it would be super easy to reduce that dose to make up for the extra K in Equilibrium. So I see no problems with using Equilibrium.

I really don't have any experience with K and PO4 test kits. I do see Salifert recommended though when the subject comes up. But that doesn't mean others aren't as good.

Sorry to hear about your Amanos. That's tough when that happens.

It's not your Kh though. The co2 overdose and the low Gh is what wreaks havoc on shrimp. Too many Amano shrimp running in ADA tanks for kh to be the issue. :)




Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Here, it does have magnesium.
Screenshot_2020-09-24-08-59-58-041_cn.wps.xiaomi.abroad.lite.jpg


Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pauld738

Pauld738

Member
Feb 24, 2019
51
18
8
Modesto, CA
Oh the Green Machine led me a stray!!

https://www.thegreenmachineonline.c... ( Brown Fluid,and P – Nitrogen and Phosphate.

They listed out, what I thought, was all the ingredients. And they completely left out magnesium! Maybe that was on purpose? :)

According to rotalabutterfly.com which has Tropica Premium in their list (I should have checked there first!)...

If you add 10ml's per week, like you are doing, to your 105 liter water volume Tropica Premium only adds .371 ppm Mg to your tank.

If rotalabutterfly is correct. That is a really small amount of magnesium being added and can safely be ignored.

I found another post over on planted tank.net that talks about Tropica Premium and no one was complaining that the values on rotalabutterfly were wrong. So maybe rotalabutterfly is correct?

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...calculate-fertilizer-ppm.html#/topics/1277061

It actually makes sense. I follow George Farmer on YouTube and Instagram, he's a Tropica Rep and Aquascaper, and he doses 8x the recommended dose in his co2 injected, heavily planted, tanks.

If you start dosing upwards of 80 ml per week in your tank, not that I recommend that lol, then you might have to account for that extra Mg. But it would only be half of what you would need to get to 6 dGh. You would still need to add some more Mg to get the proper ratio Ca:Mg, which is important.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: nanomania

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
Oh the Green Machine led me a stray!!

https://www.thegreenmachineonline.c... ( Brown Fluid,and P – Nitrogen and Phosphate.

They listed out, what I thought, was all the ingredients. And they completely left out magnesium! Maybe that was on purpose? :)

According to rotalabutterfly.com which has Tropica Premium in their list (I should have checked there first!)...

If you add 10ml's per week, like you are doing, to your 105 liter water volume Tropica Premium only adds .371 ppm Mg to your tank.

If rotalabutterfly is correct. That is a really small amount of magnesium being added and can safely be ignored.

I found another post over on planted tank.net that talks about Tropica Premium and no one was complaining that the values on rotalabutterfly were wrong. So maybe rotalabutterfly is correct?

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/...calculate-fertilizer-ppm.html#/topics/1277061

It actually makes sense. I follow George Farmer on YouTube and Instagram, he's a Tropica Rep and Aquascaper, and he doses 8x the recommended dose in his co2 injected, heavily planted, tanks.

If you start dosing upwards of 80 ml per week in your tank, not that I recommend that lol, then you might have to account for that extra Mg. But it would only be half of what you would need to get to 6 dGh. You would still need to add some more Mg to get the proper ratio Ca:Mg, which is important.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
So if i dose seachem equilibrium weekly during WC and tropica premium, would that be enough? And one last question im always confused when dosing, the dose should be calculated as per tank volume or total water volume? My tank is 152liters, but water volume after sand wood etc. Its approx 105 liters

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 

Pauld738

Member
Feb 24, 2019
51
18
8
Modesto, CA
Correct. Bump up your Gh to 6 using Equilibrium. The Tropica Premium isn't going to add enough Mg to make a difference. And I think you have everything else covered. Just watch Nitrates as your plants fill in.

And yes, use the 105 liters when making dosing calculations.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: nanomania

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
Correct. Bump up your Gh to 6 using Equilibrium. The Tropica Premium isn't going to add enough Mg to make a difference. And I think you have everything else covered. Just watch Nitrates as your plants fill in.

And yes, use the 105 liters when making dosing calculations.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Thanks alot for the help

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pauld738

nanomania

Member
Jul 24, 2020
68
4
8
Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
No problem!

Hope everything settles in and grows well. :)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Have started dosing equilibrium with tropica premium. Due to too much playing with co2, have started getting bba [emoji25], currently a few spots, so doing h2o2 with excel spot treatment. Excel im anyways dosing 2ml during wc and 1ml daily for approx 105liter tank water volume, so while dosing i do spot treatment.

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk
 

Pauld738

Member
Feb 24, 2019
51
18
8
Modesto, CA
Tough, when that happens.

I went thru a BBA battle earlier in the year when my co2 went out acouple of days. It went away with diligent water changes and consistent co2 that gave me a pH drop of around 1.3-1.4. Right on the edge of being too much. Not sure if that is entirely what made it go away (is it ever totally gone, lol) but I didn't really do anything else besides spot treating like you are (I wasn't dosing Excel in the water column, just spot treating).

Good luck!

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: nanomania