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Roots uptakes of nutrients

Discussion in 'Talk to Tom Barr' started by Brian20, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

    Local Time:
    10:06 AM
    Well Im reading in books and internet. Well I found a contradictory statement. Well in some articles says that a good aireation is good for roots so the granular substrate (ADA, gravel, lava rock, flourite, eco complete, etc....) are the best substrate that a (well, I call it) base substrate. a base susbstrate is a substrate under the main substrate that are common clay, peat, mulm, mineralized soil, humus, and the list goes on.) A lot of this main substrates creates a mulm that not let the water pass through it, well maybe the water pass in microscopic speeds.

    Well, I made a susbtrate ( I mentioned it here) that have goods results for me, mainly with grass type and Echinodorus species. The susbtrates not have it all, you still need to add ferts but it is like a backup and helps in general to plants. I have used Eco complete only, flora max and laterite in my tanks and my own substrate are far more good that this substrates. Not secrets here, only clay, mineralized soil (water mineralizing), bacteria, peat and a few ferts and osmocote in some variants. The plants in this substrate grows roots faster and longer, also very white and healthy, and when is used with liquid ferts the plants grows and reproduce like weeds, the dwarf hairgrass grows like crazy.

    example of my 20G

    first days

    [​IMG]

    Actually

    [​IMG]

    I read in other parts in internet and books that a loam substrate are the best because it contains anaerobic spots that transforms heavy metals to bio-available to the roots because it not have oxigen and the minerals can stay more time bio-avaliable. That non bio-available iron transform to bio-available in this loam substrates. Also the substrate not need to be oxigenated because the same plants roots "oxigenate" it pumping oxigen to the substrate and I confirmed this because in high CO2 levels somethimes I see big bubbles coming from the substrate and some unrooted roots making bubbles.

    Other says that in anaerobic conditions the substrate comes dangerous for plants and fish because it creates chemicals and gases that can damage roots and kill fish.

    Well there are a big contradiction:eek: :confused:

    I trust in my substrate, a nutrient rich, loamy, acid substrate is the best to grow plants, with a layer of thrifty sorb (is like SMS) over it to not let the rich substrate touch the column water directly.

    Tom Barr what you think about this contradictions?

    Thanks in advance, Brian Soto
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
    Staff Member Administrator

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    Local Time:
    4:06 PM
    Welcome to the internet and the art of confusion. :D

    This is baloney and wrong. these people simply do not understand biology of aquatic plants, they are more likely engineers with a lack of basic plant root functioning in soils and sediment cycling. Or merely parroting what some else has stated.

    Plant roots act like pipes, they actively pump and release O2 into the sediment and pull nutrients up and into the water column. This is how they grow in natural systems and the process and effects of roots is very well documented.

    It is a shame that many use this basura to sell products.

    Soil has some ferts in it vs say..plain sand, so that, not the aeration, is what is helping growth.

    If it was merely a matter of aeration, using UG filters or RFUG's would work fine/better than plain sand without any added nutrients from soil ADA aqua soil etc, but we see no growth differences using plain sand. Using enriched sediments either for that matter.

    This suggest that it is the nutrients, not the areation, or a better term is the redox of the sediment.

    Yes, however this is a function of nutrients, not a function of aeration, or flow through the sediments, there are so many roots there it has plenty of O2 being added by plants.

    Adding enriched soils is a good thing, I suggest it, but why it works is also very straight forward and simple also, it has little to do with aeration/grain sizing etc.



    Roots/plants can make the nutrients bioavaliable.
    They are not at the mercy of the anaerobic/aerobic conditions, they actively modify the sediment to suit their needs.

    That is what plants do.

    These guys sound more correct.

    Don't listen to these clowns.
    I've never seen this occur, I'm certain I have far more replicates of soil and aquatic plant test than they ever could possible have as a hobbyists.

    I put out another 160 pots for grow out for some pondweed at the lab today.
    I add clay delta soil, top with sand and add the weed tubers for grow out.

    Actually what do you think about the advice?
    Right, or wrong based on your experiences?

    Why do you think the plants do well with sediments + water column dosing?
    you can also grow plants effectively without any sediment ferts, and all water column, or go the other way, all sediments, no water column dosing, but the best results come from a mix of both.

    Most sediment only dosing leech nutrients into the water for many months, plants also leech nutrients and translocate them into the water column as they grow.

    Sediment ferts are good since it allows a long term supply that's fair stable, and if you forget, or leave for a week or two, your aquarium has some fertilizer.

    Soils, ADA As etc, are not good for people who move their plants around a lot.........and are not careful. It can make a mess, but if you do a water change after, not much of an issue really.

    Regards,
    Tom Barr
     
  3. Brian20

    Brian20 Guest

    Local Time:
    10:06 AM
    Yeah, my substrate if I uproot a plant it can be a mess and make a cloud the water but It I uproot 1 inch and then cut the roots so I have now a plant with one inch of root. This way I not have problems because the rich substrate not reach the water column.


    Thanks Tom Barr

    Brian
     

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