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Revamp of my dosing needed

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by shoggoth43, Jan 13, 2010.

  1. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    I've gotten some decent results from my 29 gallon tank recently but I'm dosing quite a bit of excel to do so. Lighting, CO2, and flow "seem" fine but that's always a work in progress and will be further tweaked. However, I'm pretty sure I could easily do better in my dosing, both in amounts and in type and I suspect something I'm missing might be holding things back since it seems like things should be moving along considerably better.

    I've got some reports from the water company but I'm not really sure what numbers to post that would be helpful to figure out a starting point. Since I'm going to be moving to a bigger tank I'm hoping to get from ok/good results in the 29 to the excellent mark so that I have a good comparison tank for what works well and doesn't work well for me. So what numbers would be helpful to post?

    For macros dosing I'm using KNO3 at 1/4 tsp, 1/16 tsp K2PO4 every other day

    GH booster of 1/2 Tsp weekly

    For micros it's 1 capful Flourish, and 1 capful Flourish Iron every off day

    2 Capfuls Excel daily. At least weekly ( maybe every 8 days if it's a rough weekend ), water changes down to 1-2" of water remaining to keep the fish swimming while I work.

    I'm going to be ordering more dry ferts and will include the CSM+b in the purchase unless Tom's new dry micros are available. Should I be getting something else to add to the tank while I'm at it?

    I think I'm doing something right because I had 6 of these. http://www.livefishdirect.com/images/fish/panda%20cory.jpg The other day while cleaning I noticed one that was ~3/8" long which is rather smaller than the 6 that I put in there. Considering all the shrimp in there I'm not sure how it survived such a hostile environment but it's a good surprise and at least proves that conditions aren't all THAT bad overall.

    -
    S
     
  2. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hmmmmm...

    Hi S,

    Your dosing of fertz seems a little odd.:confused:

    I would back off the flourish iron to a light 1/4 cap full three times a week.;)

    If it is KH2PO4 you are using, cutting back to 1/32 teaspoon 3 days is what I would advise. Actually I would advise using a light 1 ml of Fleet Enema 3 times a week instead of either K2HPO4 or KH2PO4, then increase the KNO3 to a light 1/3 teaspoon 3 days a week.

    The Excel dosing seems excessive, 2 to 3 cap fulls after a water change, then half a cap full every day seems sufficient.

    My 2 cents US.:D

    Biollante
     
  3. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    I think this is pretty much where I started from using the EI light thread.

    20-40 Gallon Aquariums
    +/- ¼ tsp KN03 3x a week
     
  4. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Looks Good!

    Hi S,

    Your tap water looks pretty good.:)

    I will stick with my above recommendation.:gw

    I like your water change routine, rather like mine. I actually go a step further, when I get around 75-80% I start adding water and so the total amount of replacement water is 90-110%, especially with my bigger dirtier fish. Doing it that way also keeps my larger critters from ending up on their sides.:eek:

    Biollante
     
  5. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi e1,
    Sorry to start with a question, but is the 1/2 tsp GH booster sufficient to raise calcium and magnesium levels x4. I know there must be a way of determining how much calcium and magnesium we add with GH booster. I just never needed to know before because my tap water has high levels of both.

    Shoggoth's soft water and low alkalinity must need more then just a few tweaks. The calcium (4.31ppm) and magnesium (0.85ppm) levels from the tap are at least 4 times lower then what is often recommended. I just can't believe there aren't a few more things he could do to improve. MgSO4.7H2O, (plaster of paris or dolomite?) CaCl2.2H20 maybe. I agree with Biollante, 1mL 2-3 x week of Flourish Fe would work as well as 1 capful.

    One other thing I would add is that my tap waters phosphorus is on average 2ppm and I have had a problem with GSA when I forget to dose and allow the PO4 levels to drop. The 1mL fleet enema is a good option and much easier to dose then 1/32tsp. However, KH2PO4 can also be made into a stock solution for more accurate dosing.
     
    #5 Tug, Jan 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2010
  6. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    I'll have to try the liquid stock idea. Right now I just use the pinch/dash,whatever spice measuring spoons. It seems to roughly work out to 1/8, 1/16, and 1/32 tsp.

    I'll look over some of this a bit more this weekend and see if I can post an updated dosing plan and hold off on any fert purchases in the meantime. I'm still interested in the CSM+b but if I can get the same results with other things locally that's ok too. I just don't want to pay through the nose for it. I also have to see what I can do for my DIY overflow box so that might happen this weekend too.

    -
    S
     
  7. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Watching the flow

    Very Cool
    Keep us updated on the overflow box. :cool:
    Thank you for your help as well.

    Later!
     
    #7 Tug, Jan 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2010
  8. shoggoth43

    shoggoth43 Lifetime Charter Member
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    Ok, so I went out and snagged some epsom salts and fleet. Or rather the fleet equivalent. It seems they have two kinds now, the mineral spirits kind ( doesn't sound like a good idea ) and the other kind which seems to be Sodium Phosphate. This appears to have 19g Monobasic and 7g Dibasic in a 118ml dose. I'm not quite sure how much to add as I don't have anything in mL that I know of unless I maybe use the cap on the Flourish bottle since they say each thread is roughly 1mL I think.

    So how much of the Epsom and how much fleet do I add and when?

    It looks like a bit more KNO3 and none of the KH2P04? ( or whatever it is? )

    I'll probably get some diagrams and pix up for my cube to see about flow adjustments as well.

    Thanks.

    -
    S
     
  9. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi S,

    On water change day, I would increase the GH booster just a bit a heavy ½ teaspoon.

    On water change, 3rd and 6th days:
    • KNO3 ¼ teaspoon
    • Fleet Enema 1 milliliter
    • Epsom Salt 1⁄3 teaspoon

    On the 2nd, 4th and 7th days:
    • Florish 1 capful (5 milliliters) {This you could double or triple.}
    If CSM+B 1⁄6 teaspoon

    I know Tug prefers Epsom Salt with trace, since CSM+B has MgSO4.7H2O, me I do not think it matters.

    Biollante
     
  10. Tug

    Tug Lifetime Charter Member
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    Warning: The Chuck Gadd's highly prized, always there, everyones, trusty calculator has not - listed monobasic sodium phosphate - You can raise some great fish in your water, anyway.

    If you add KH2PO4, and continue using it, (or there is the shop and swap)
    1/4 tsp, KH2PO4 ~ limited (CO2) and a plant-party that's rocking it.
    R
    ecycle old seachem bottles
    - my PO4 stock:
    1 tablespoon KH2PO4 to 500mL distilled water.
    1mL in 21 gallons water ~ 0.25 ppm phosphate
    adding 5mL (1 capful) ~ 1mL of Fleet Enema
    less sodium, but it adds some K.

    You only need dose 5mL of flourish and any magnesium from flourish or from CSM in truth, is not much.
    Most often there is more in the water we drink.
    GH booster and equilibrium offer a tighter formula and more Ca and Mg,
    3 : 1 it's a rising tide - 1/2 tsp GH booster should be rocking it!
    :gw Epsom Salt goes in the bath water.
     
    #10 Tug, Jan 19, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2010
  11. Biollante

    Biollante Lifetime Charter Member
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    Hi All,

    Tug: Huh?:confused: :D

    Basically I make up solutions four weeks at a time, normalized for one milliliter per gallon, three times a week. This way no matter who doses, the dosing we all know what goes in any given tank based on volume. Also 4-week batches really require no preservatives, assuming reasonable cleanliness. :)

    I use the same theory for the tanks with dosing pumps.:)

    I find that as long as water changes are pretty regular, precision dosing means little, the dry fertz are cheap enough there really is no excuse for limiting nutrients. :cool:

    Biollante
     
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