Regulator/Solenoid Help?

[dava6711]

Hi

This is my first time posting on this forum as I have a reef tank and have never kept a planted or freshwater aquarium, but I've been reading this section of the forum for a few of weeks now and decided to post here rather than a saltwater forum because in all honesty you guys are definitely the subject matter experts when it comes to CO2 setups. Before I begin I'm a UK aquarist so a lot of things you Americans can easily obtain we struggle to aquaire here in blighty! I'm about to begin putting together a calcium reactor as I'm sick and tired of battling the constant build up of chlorides that result from the heavy use of dosing two part calcium and alkalinity supplements! From reading freshwater forums I understand that a quality dual stage CO2 regulator is the best route to go and Burkert solenoids are rock solid, but I'm confused from this point on! I think I've found a decent regulator, it's a "BOC 8500 Series CO2 0-2 bar/0-30 (41490)" here's a link referencing which regulator it is (I'm not purchasing it from this site however)
http://www.fnpile.co.uk/index.php?area=products&product_id=1991
It appears to be well built and states that it's dual stage and the outlet for this regulator is 3/8" RH (does RH mean Right Angled?), is the 3/8" RH outlet the point at which a solenoid valve would connect directly to the regulator or can a solenoid valve even be directly connected to this type regulator in the first place? I've also found an online UK source for stainless steel Burkert solenoid valves but cannot find one that will fit the 3/8" RH outlet on the regulator, but I've read somewhere that regulator outlets can be removed and a 1/8" sized outlet could be screwed in it's place is this true, if not can anybody recommend me a reliable solenoid valve with a 3/8" connection? I apologise if these questions are simple to answer for you guys but most reef keepers who run calcium reactors utilise crappy, off the shelf aquatic regulators and needle valves and any quality guides that I can find that don't use standard off the shelf regulators are written by Americans with American regulators which use different connections to the UK NPT ones?

I admire the expertise on this site and appreciate any advise offered

Many thanks

 

[Left C]

RH stands for "right hand" threads I do believe.

Swagelok carries 3/8" threaded parts. The Burkert solenoid uses 1/8" NPT ports. You need some type of female 3/8" reducer to male 1/8" NPT thread. Something like a Swagelok B-6-RA-2 (Brass Pipe Fitting, Reducing Adapter, 3/8 in. Female NPT x 1/8 in. Male NPT) might work. This is just a guess through. Sometimes we use an elbow here.
B-6-RA-2: Brass Pipe Fitting, Reducing Adapter, 3/8 in. Female NPT x 1/8 in. Male NPT: http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...A-2&item=e254464f-20f7-457f-a9a9-c8602af7276e
B-6-SE: Brass Pipe Fitting, Street Elbow, 3/8 in. Female NPT x 3/8 in. Male NPT: http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...-SE&item=67e75720-7d94-4b00-9447-ffde7904f9c1

Our regulators have 1/4" NPT ports. Your BOC regulator has 3/8" RH threads. I'm just not familiar with these threads and I am just guessing. You could call your local Swagelok dealer and ask them.

When you find the correct 3/8" to 1/8" reducer parts, the rest is easy.

 

[dava6711]

Thank you Left C, I've read many of your posts and I was kind of hoping you'd reply as you seriously are the man! Does this regulator look like a good bit of kit to you, if I purchase a 3/8" reducer you reckon it will fit the BOC regulator ok? I wasn't sure if the stated 3/8" RH outlet on the regulator applied to the integral/internal thread on the regulator itself or to the 3/8" outlet piece (or is it the same throughout, hope I'm making sense)?

Your knowledge and opinion is highly respected Left C!

Many thanks

 

[Left C]

I've only used 1/4" NPT, 1/8" NPT and #10-32 parts on regulators. Our NPT threads are tapered. Your 3/8" threads could be tapered or parallel or some other type of threads. I've never dealt with your 3/8" threads before. This is why I suggested that you contact an UK Swagelok dealer. Maybe simple hardware stores can answer this thread question. Or, maybe the regulator company itself can tell you. I don't want to possibly give you bad information by making a guess.

 

[dava6711]

Following your suggestion I'm about to email the distributor of the BOC regulator to attempt to clarify what kind of threads the regulator has, the main UK Swagelok distrubutor is very local to me so acquiring the correct fittings should be very easy for me? Are BOC regulators highly regarded? Do you know if Swagelok manufacture a suitable high quality needle valve and can you recommend a quality 1/8" Burket solenoid valve for me please?

I'm sorry to bug you so much with noob questions but I'm really happy to be corresponding with a CO2 guru!

Thanks again

 

[Left C]

I've never used BOC regulators. I can't comment on them. More than likely though, one will be excellent for your use. They have 2, 4 and 10 bar regulators. Either of these will work for our use. If I had a choice, I would go with the 2 bar model if I wasn't going to use an atomizer that requires 30+ psi. Note that 1 bar = 14.5 psi. If I might try an atomizer, a 4 bar or 10 bar model should be chosen.

Swagelok makes high quality needle valves and metering valves. Go with their metering valves for our use. Their needle valves' threads are far too coarse. Many people use their low flow and medium flow metering valves. These come in straight flow and angled flow. Depending on the 3/8" adapters needed and or available, this will determine which flow design that you will need. What size is your aquarium? This may determine if you need a low flow or a medium flow Swagelok metering valves: http://swagelok.com/products/valves/metering-valves.aspx I use Ideal needle valves. Their "1" series works for me: http://idealvalve.com/

I don't know the part number to tell you for a 6011 Burkert solenoid for your use. We use 120v, 60 Hz models and your voltage and frequency is different. Also, Burkert solenoids are made with either Viton seals or Buna-N seals. You can view the specs in post number 1 in this thread. Try to match your specs with these except for voltage and frequency plus your seal choice. http://www.barrreport.com/showthrea...a-seals-available-very-soon?p=52342#post52342

 

[dava6711]

I'll view that post now.

Thank you for all your help and advise Left C.

Stu

 

[dava6711]

Forgot to add I'll go with a Swagelok metering valve then as I know it can be pain trying to aqcuire Ideal needle valves in the UK!

 

[Left C]

Good luck with your build!

Maybe we can see some pictures.

 

[dava6711]

Once I begin the build I'll definitely write a thread with pictures as it maybe of some use to UK/European reef keepers who decide to build or upgrade a calcium reactor.

 

[Left C]

A new Victor VTS253A-1993 sells for $245. It is set up for CO2 duty and it is chrome plated. You would have to swap the US CGA nut and nipple to the ones for UK use. Would this be an alternative to the BOC regulator?

245 US dollars = 152.7813 British pounds sterling = 183.5618 euros

Victor VTS253A-1993: http://www.scientificvisions.com/ca...ducts_id=52&osCsid=3lbrqre0j7338oe8a7u48fqu35

Matt F.'s VTS253A-1993 build: http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.php/7787-How-to-build-a-Victor-VTS253a-1993?highlight=1993

 

[dava6711]

Hmmm, you've given me lot's to think about. That's a beautiful looking regulator (did I just say that, you planted guys are sucking me in lol?) I'll have to look into the extra costs we incure for customs on top of postage for the privilege of residing in our wonderful little Island! Sourcing the recommended Ideal needle valve is difficult over here without waiting for overseas shipping from the US (not a problem I suppose if I decide to go with the Victor VTS253A you recommeded). I'm impatient though and I want this calcium reactor online ASAP! If I decide to go with the BOC 8500 how am I looking so far with this setup?

Remove the 3/8" RH fitting from this regulator http://www.fnpile.co.uk/index.php?area=products&product_id=1991 (41490 version) and screw this http://swagelok.com/search/find_products_home.aspx?part=SS-6-RB-2&item= fitting in it's place then screw this http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...-RT&item=1ae2f19e-f6c2-4c05-aeda-f918ddde8050 or the angled version http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...-ME&item=67e75720-7d94-4b00-9447-ffde7904f9c1 inside the above fitting allowing me to attach the entire regulator assembly to a suitable 1/8" 6011 Burkert solenoid valve?
I'm thinking of using one of the following http://www.valves-online.co.uk/acatalog/6011-ST-ST-Direct-Acting-Solenoid-Valve.html stainless steel Burkert solenoid valves (230/50 option) but have no idea which "orifice" size I need whether it's 1.6, 2.0 or 2.4 I need?
I'm also looking at using this http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...-VH&item=1acb7133-8c34-4ad2-b0c5-74ad982a58ce metering valve but unlike the Ideal needle valve pictured in the excellent guide you linked me to, this Swagelok metering valve has nuts over the threads so I'm unsure how I attach it to the 1/8" solenoid valve, are the nuts there to protect the threads while it's not in use and simply screw off allowing me to screw the metering valve directly inside the solenoid when required?

Edit, I've just found an online image with a similar setup incorporating a Swagelok metering valve with 1/8" threads and brass fittings connecting the Swagelok metering valve to the solenoid and bubble counter, does anybody know the product code of these brass fittings or stainless steel versions as I've been searching in vain?

[attachment=1036:name]

Again I apologize for so many questions

Thanks for all your help

 

[Left C]

In post #6 above I gave you a link to the specs for our Burkert Buna-N solenoids. The Viton seal models have the same specs except for the seal material. If you have a solenoid custom built, it will take around 6 weeks. It has the orifice size too. Anyway, here are the US specs. I'll look at your parts when I get back in. Asking these questions is what forums are for. I certainly do not mind.

I took a quick look and your hex nipple has ISO tapered threads. I won't work. http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...-RT&item=1ae2f19e-f6c2-4c05-aeda-f918ddde8050 I'll take a closer look at your fittings and parts when I get back in.



6011 BUNA-N SOLENOID SPECIFICATIONS

00463938

material: BRASS
description: 2/2-WAY MINI-SOLENOID VALVE, DIR. ACTING
mat description: 6011-A02,0BBMSNM81-2-120/60-04 PD02
type: 6011
circuit function: A: 2/2-WAYS; NORMALLY CLOSED
orifice size: 02,0: 5/64
seal material: BB: NBR
body material: MS: BR
port connection: NM81: NPT1/8
coil size: 2: 0,79 INCH
voltage: 120V
frequency: 60Hz
power consumption: 4W
Var1: PD02: UR (UL-RECOGNIZED)/CSA-APPROVAL
technical data: PRESSURE
pressure min: 0
pressure max: 8
technical data: FLOW-RATE
KV: 0,110



00463939

material: STAINLESS STEEL
description: 2/2-WAY MINI-SOLENOID VALVE, DIR. ACTING
mat description: 6011-A02,0BBVANM81-2-120/60-04 PD02
type: 6011
circuit function: A: 2/2-WAYS; NORMALLY CLOSED
orifice size: 02,0: 5/64
seal material: BB: NBR
body material: VA: SS
port connection: NM81: NPT1/8
coil size: 2: 0,79 INCH
voltage: 120V
frequency: 60Hz
power consumption: 4W
Var1: PD02: UR (UL-RECOGNIZED)/CSA-APPROVAL
technical data: PRESSURE
pressure min: 0
pressure max: 8
technical data: FLOW-RATE
KV: 0,110

 

[dava6711]

Ok, so following your advice and going off the thread you pointed me to I'd prefer to go with an angled fitting anyway in an attempt to emulate the neat and tidy job the OP achieved: http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...-ME&item=67e75720-7d94-4b00-9447-ffde7904f9c1 (it has NPT threads too) so the fitting I mentioned earlier with the iso threads (the one you said won't work) is now redundant!

 

[Left C]

The metering valve that you picked requires "tube fittings." I would get one that has the same features, but it has 1/8" NPT threads. You can use either male or female threads or a mixture of the two.

Many of us use a check valve on the metering valve. One with a 1/3 or 1/2 cracking pressure will work fine. Swagelok has some good choices. They come in male and female 1/8" NPT too.

Also, you need some type of tube fitting to connect your CO[sub]2[/sub] tubing to. You can use a barbed fitting or Swagelok's tube fittings. You will need to know the size of your CO[sub]2[/sub] tubing. Most commonly it is either 1/8" ID x 1/4" OD or 4mm ID x 6mm OD.

 

[dava6711]

When you say check valve I presume you mean the same kind of check valve that's integral to some bubble counters like JBJ etc that prevent fluid being drawn into the solenoid and regulator? I'm really struggling to source a high quality, low pressure needle/metering valve with 1/8" npt threads that's available in the UK?

 

[Left C]

You asked about the orifice size that we use on the Burkert solenoid. It is 2mm or 5/64".

 

[dava6711]

Do you have any idea why the UK distrubutor website I linked to on one of my previous posts http://www.valves-online.co.uk/acata...oid-Valve.html states 1.6, 2.0 or 2.4 as orifice sizes as opposed to 2mm and how would I know which of these applies to the 2mm/5/64" that you guys use?
I also plan to use this check valve http://www.swagelok.com/search-results/search-results.aspx?qs=SS-2C2-1/3, does this look ok to you?

 

[Left C]

Check valve examples:
SS-2C2-1/3: SS Poppet Check Valve, Fixed Pressure, 1/8 in. MNPT, 1/3 psig (0.03 bar): http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...1/3&item=c80b8fbe-343c-49a5-8ef1-2a086c6523b7
SS-2C4-1/3: SS Poppet Check Valve, Fixed Pressure, 1/8 in. FNPT, 1/3 psig (0.03 bar): http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...1/3&item=c80b8fbe-343c-49a5-8ef1-2a086c6523b7

Swagelok carries more products than they have listed in their catalog. A low flow metering valve with 1/8" NPT and the Vernier handle is a product that Swagelok might have in stock somewhere. You local sales company can look that up for you. Also, if the metering valve doesn't come with the Vernier handle, you can purchase that separately and install it yourself. Swagelok Vernier handles: http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...s=Y&item=049502b0-79d3-442b-a199-616806dd9635

1/8" NPT low flow Swagelok metering valves. These are made from brass and then plated a chrome mist color. They look just like stainless steel and not yellow like brass. I know the image is a brass color, but it is a typo. http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...s=Y&item=1acb7133-8c34-4ad2-b0c5-74ad982a58ce

They can make something identical to the B-SM2-A in stainless steel. It would be part number SS-SM2-A. This is a low flow metering valve in stainless steel with male 1/8" NPT. You can order the optional NY-5K-S Vernier Handle Kit for Low-Flow Metering Valves: http://swagelok.com/search/find_pro...K-S&item=049502b0-79d3-442b-a199-616806dd9635 If you would like Swagelok to already have the Vernier handle on the metering valve; its part number would be: SS-SM2-A-MH

Have I confused the "H" out of you yet? I'm not trying to. I'm just explaining some of the "curve balls" that come at us when dealing with these specific parts.

 

[Left C]

Do you have any idea why the UK distrubutor website I linked to on one of my previous posts http://www.valves-online.co.uk/acata...oid-Valve.html states 1.6, 2.0 or 2.4 as orifice sizes as opposed to 2mm and how would I know which of these applies to the 2mm/5/64" that you guys use?

The 2.0 model has the 2mm orifice.

I also plan to use this check valve http://www.swagelok.com/search-results/search-results.aspx?qs=SS-2C2-1/3, does this look ok to you?

That's a good one. The threads will depend on your metering valve choice.