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  1. We are after as many aquarium plant images that we can get, doing so will assist us in completing the aquarium plant database.

    https://barrreport.com/threads/aquatic-plant-images-wanted.14374/
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Red plants and photoshop

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Species' started by Tom Barr, Dec 7, 2011.

  1. Aquadream

    Aquadream Guru Class Expert

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    Actually there is everything wrong about it, because Amano did not make it clear that IAPLC is a picture contest. They insist it is a plants layout contest.
    In the latest editions of IAPLC I do not even see much plants in the winning scapes. Now it is more about hardscape and photoshop than ever before.
     
  2. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well, the IAPLC is another issue beyond this. The top 7 winners...now that's pretty messed up way to judge. I know of no art type contest that would ever consider that protocol to judging where only those that show up to their party can vote.
     
  3. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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    Hi all,

    A couple of thoughts:

    1. I had NO IDEA that the use of digital software was as prevalent as it seems to be.

    2. I myself could not discern this w/o before/after comparisons.

    3. My personal opinion is that at minimum, the use of any enhancement techniques should be noted. I would prefer as much detail as possible. It seems the right thing to do here.

    4. I understand the photography aspect as part of the overall art, but at least to me, I have not seen these contests advertised as such. Honestly. I thought that you were just lucky to have good scaping/growth skills AND decent photography skills.

    5. How about contests or categories where NO editing is allowed, re RAW as others have suggested?

    To each his or her own of course, but the use of it to demonstrate either gardening or scaping skills w/o disclosing the use, seems a bit unethical to me...

    Even if it is has tacit approval from the judges and the contest rules do not prohibit it.

    People OUTSIDE the hobby would not know that, hell, I didn't even know it, and I am reasonably involved in the hobby.

    I took it as advertised and noone is highlighting the use of software as a way to the top...

    My 2 cents.

    Great thread.
     
  4. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Well here's the deal with me:

    If someone stopped over at my place and looked at my tanks and felt that the pics were better than the real tanks, then I have a problem.
    And since many folks locally do see my tanks, and fish and all..............I have little choice.
    So I tend to do the tank post processing very lightly, much less than most.

    And I've seen a lot of pics that have been doctored to make their points. When I pointed it out, they never responded back and stopped the posting for the thread.

    Aquariums are meant to be seen in person, it's like looking at a picture of a redwood tree versus seeing one in person.
    There is a huge difference. I live with my aquariums, so this is more important to me than impressing people with such trickery on line.
     
  5. detlef

    detlef Member

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    But what if you have messed the camera settings when shooting the tank during the small time window as it was in good shape? Precisely this happened to me many years ago. PS saved me as I wanted the photo to take part in the IALPC. See original vs. processed.

    [attachment=959:name]


    Regards, Detlef

    Kopie von P3150026 Original.jpg

    BEAUTY OF WILDNESS 16.03.2007.jpg
     
    #25 detlef, Jan 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2012
  6. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Detlef,

    This is a good example of where it was used wisely.
     
  7. Gerryd

    Gerryd Plant Guru Team
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  8. Rob Rosa

    Rob Rosa Junior Poster

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    I see no issues with slight adjustments to hues and colour balance. Many SLRs (and point and shoots) have the feature built into them where it automatically tries to adjust the picture, whether its brighten the image, or tweak the colour balance a bit. So how is it different that someone does it afterwards. how often have you spent adjusting camera settings, moving objects around the room to avoid reflection, turning off lights, throwing blankets over objects you cant move to help that picture come out perfect? No different than adjusting the hue digitally
     
  9. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    This part is true, but we have quite a no# of images floating around where the user used red bulbs, which can really bring out red color in the pictures, or they went overboard with photoshop/post processing.

    The problem is that other hobbyists see these images.........and think they are doing something wrong or can have a tank just like that if they take the photographer's advice.
    Which typically does NOT entail using photoshop or red bulbs and the other picture taking tricks. I've yet to see a single red plant post that went into the picture shot and the color adjustments.
    Well, other than myself and that's cause I'm bringing attention to it.

    Amano sticks with film and does a great job.
    And he details the photo shoot nicely.
    That's VERY fair and aesthetically pleasing.
     
  10. Florin Ilia

    Florin Ilia Lifetime Charter Member
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    Speaking of IAPLC criteria, here's a short Q&A with (mostly) Amano:

    http://www.adana.co.jp/en/sc/news/detail/455

    There are some counter-intuitive answers (to me anyway):
    - a layout without fish got good marks because... you can easily imagine it with the right kind of fish
    - the same layout has a "lake" created from blue wool - but artificial objects are OK if they make they layout "better"

    This is slightly off topic here as unfortunately they don't discuss photo editing.
     
  11. Aquadream

    Aquadream Guru Class Expert

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    My wife just gave me a better idea.
    How about entering the contest with an empthy tank. That way you can immagine everything not just the right kind of fish.:)
     
  12. Florin Ilia

    Florin Ilia Lifetime Charter Member
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    Exactly. And as long as it's an ADA tank, you may actually stand a chance :)

    In all fairness, overall the contest is a good thing for the hobby - it creates visibility for beautiful aquariums. Like Amano says in the end - it's not the Olympics, they tend to be more lenient. They probably don't want to have a team of lawyers on call for the judging...

    I wish they did discuss the issue of photo manipulation though. I think I remember a discussion about the 2008 contest with an entry which was (allegedly) grossly manipulated (with plants added in Photoshop etc).



    I found the discussion here: http://www.aquascapingworld.com/forum/general-aquascaping-planted-tank-discussions/953-iaplc-photoshop-issue.html
    The photos on the first page are lost but there are links on the second page and I reuploaded them anyway:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Aquadream

    Aquadream Guru Class Expert

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    Well this only shows that rules for ADA means nothing. It is a big talk on the IAPLC regarding entry guide lines but Adobe Photoshop is bigger.
    It is a shame that such a grand contest can be so screwed.
     
  14. ghostsword

    ghostsword Lifetime Charter Member
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    Wow, it looks so real!! It makes me think what other pictures may be on the contest like that one.


    ___________________________
     
  15. Aquadream

    Aquadream Guru Class Expert

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    Don't even think Luis, because if you could know the answer it will probably cause you to lose confidens in those contests forever.
    ASW contest is good in this regard, because they require few photos from each entry. That way it is much more dificult to fake scapes. Unforunately for them it is also a limitation of how many participants they will get to enter.
    This year I could not enter ASW contest, because I have made only front shots from my scapes. Shame.
     
  16. ghostsword

    ghostsword Lifetime Charter Member
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    Maybe ADA could do the same, multiple shots. :) otherwise we just bite the bullet and learn some photoshop skills.

    I got a 4 people team of photoshop staff at work, will ask them for tips!


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  17. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Learn CS4 bubba!

    Get good at it and you do not even NEED a camera!

    I've seen this same stuff for a long time and complained about a long long time ago on APD mailing list over a decade ago, it's only getting worse.

    I miss good old film.

    Amano does also I'm sure, but he still uses it.
     
  18. ghostsword

    ghostsword Lifetime Charter Member
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    Will learn it, the guys gave me a run today, and showed me what can be done with photoshop. The plants can be built leaf by leaf if needed. Amazing!!

    Need a shoal? Easy, one picture of one fish, tweak a bit and voila, a 30 fish shoal.

    It is shocking!


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  19. Aquadream

    Aquadream Guru Class Expert

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    What is more shocking is that the general public is ignorant and still keeps supporting contests that are full of crap for the sake seeing those amazing new aquascapes. How little do they know that much of those aquascapes do not even exist in the shape they are presented.

    I have Canon 600D which is pretty good gadget. I tried time and time again all sorts of adjustments and illumination for a year by now. Last time I have used just above the water 450 Watts of T5 lights over 200 Litres of water and still can not get even close to many cool pictures that I see.

    I think Photoshop or other picture processing rubbish should be prohibited on the contests. I would say to any contestant this -either show your aquarium for what it is or do not even mention it.
     
  20. Tom Barr

    Tom Barr Founder
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    Welcome to the club, now remember, you do not need a camera or a fish tank.........and you can win!!!
     
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