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R. Macrandra Help

Discussion in 'Aquatic Plant Fertilization' started by daniel deacu, Mar 10, 2018.

  1. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    i use 2 powerhead of 500l/h each and 2 wavemaker pumps. all my plants are moved slow , and my filter pump is positioned from leaft to right , i already lowering my PO4... now i have 3-4ppm. thx...once i get it out the Zn chelate, macrandra have no more greenish spots.. :D
     
  2. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    this is from my aquarium... some of my plants. photo from today..

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  3. KeeperOfASilentWorld

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    This technique is very troubling.

    These are all very good but they do not tell us anything about how much CO2 you have in your tank. You need to use a more scientific approach when measuring CO2. You are only assuming that you have good CO2, you cannot know for sure without any measurements.

    Measure your tanks KH ( liquid test, use the more sensitive 0.5 KH with every drop of test solution option ) and pH ( using a pH meter not a liquid test ) just before lights on ( 5 minutes before lights on ). Do the same just before lights off ( 5 min before lights off ). Post your test results here. Only then we will know where your CO2 levels are.
     
    #43 KeeperOfASilentWorld, May 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  4. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    "KeeperOfASilentWorld, post: 153233, member: 39162"]This technique is very troubling stop doing it immediately. You cannot have CO2 in a 0 KH wate

    I know many other aquarists who use this method successfully. to me it is successful, the plants grow very well, they are healthy and colorful. I modified the dosage of PO4... I added more PO4, I went with him at 5-6ppm. the fuzzy algae have begun to disappear. thx for tips !!! but i'll go on my technique ...at KH0 , CO2 dissolves much easier, PH remains stable due to buffers such as peat for example ... etc. I do not have big fluctuations at Ph. so...no worries...at KH0 Tonina Fluviatilis, L. Pantanal, E. Setaceum, Tonina Belem, all are fine, grow well and healthy i do use a Ph meter and i do test my KH with 0.5 for better results...]
     
  5. Bishop

    Bishop Member

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    Interesting, I had this same issue in my tank.
    But my plants were also melting.
    [​IMG]

    Never got round to messing with macros as I gave up on it in the end.

    My conclusion after battling with other plants is that everything showed signs of high co2 ( yellow drop checker, gasping fish, some healthy looking leaves ) but the reality was the co2 wasn't getting to the base of the plants and only around the top with less flow as my hardscape was stopping it.

    Glad you got it sorted though, I will have to try this if ever I can get my hands on some more Macrandra.
     
  6. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    I think You don't have enough light. Macrandra is a very light demmandig plant. How much light do You have?
     
  7. Bishop

    Bishop Member

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    I thought that was my issue also and upgraded twice. I had 4x 39 w t5 then to 60x3w led hood which was very bright but broke. And now 4 x 54w. Tan k is 120x45x45 cm.
    Everything got better colour wise as I raised the light higher above the tank but was melting also and I gave up.
    Redoing my tank this week so keen to test the various things you have mentioned here too.
     
  8. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Interesting that the non-chelated trace elements fixed the problem.

    That's been my experience as well, plants do better with non-chelated micros (except for Fe obviously)
     
    daniel deacu likes this.
  9. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    hello!! again :D / some good news and some bad news :D almost all my plants are doing better then ever, really!!

    so far i have managed to grow around 60 species of plants.(some species I took them out of the aquarium and gave up, they are growing too big and bushy, I had no challenge about them).
    some more pretentious other less. for example. Ludwigia Senegalensis is in the best and most beautiful form. L. Pantanal is a bush, Macrandra Green, grows like crazy this is so good :D . but. is always a but. i have some Lobelia Cardinalis mini... in the last days it took a bad shape, all leaves are distorted and no good shape and almost in the same situation is Macrandra. her leaves are a litlle cupped down... all my water parameters are ok. look just fine, i keep the same fertilizer recipe... same light, only temperature is higher with 2 degrees C. problem is in the last photo.i added more Ca and Mg. now i have Mg around 25ppm and Ca= 60-65ppm. it may be a micro toxicity? of what element?!?!

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    Greggz likes this.
  10. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Dont think it's anything to do with micro-tox.

    That's an awful lot of Ca and Mg. Are you adding that much on purpose or is that what's in your source water?

    Rather than thinking in terms of toxicity or even deficiency, consider nutrient interactions.

    Most nutrients have an affect on certain others. Sometimes two nutrients will "help" each other but most of the time its an antagonistic relationship. Such as competing for uptake by the plants, or one affecting the transport mechanism of the other. This all happens within the plant.

    Google Mulder's Chart of nutrient interactions. Here's one, you can find many articles explaining it further

    mulders-chart-e1465939603653.jpg

    The point is, extreme levels of anything can have negative affect on something else
     
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  11. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    i added for a few days. I thought there was an interaction because of too much nitrogen.so... excess nitrogen has induced a lack of magnesium and calcium. I added more calcium and magnesium trying to fix it. although i have made some WC of over 30% water these days ...still the same ... my tap has Mg 10-15ppm and aprox. 30-40ppm Ca.(result from testing the water with JBL test kits) my tap had a GH of 7-8 and a KH of 6. pff.... even today i added more Ca and Mg... so bad... thx a lot!!! so... is too much of them in the end...
     
  12. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    so...if i understood right that diagram from bove... to much Nitrogen stimulates Magnesium consumption? so more N need more Mg?
     
  13. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    and ... too much Ca block Mg absorbtion? right? pff... i've made the wrong move...
     
  14. Solcielo lawrencia

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    Daniel,

    When you added more Ca, you induced -B. Symptoms of -B: leaf margins cup downward. You can see many of your plants exhibit this symptom. Ludwigia red and Rotala macrandra are plants that have a higher B requirement. I recommend a Ca:B of 400:1. So 40mgl Ca should have around 0.1mgl of B. You can use boric acid or borax to increase B. You can also lower Ca to adjust the ratio.

    Also, the lower leaves losing pigment is indeed a -Zn. This can be the result of low Zn or excess of other metals inducing deficiency. Other symptoms of -Zn are leaf margin undulations, as you can see in many of your plants, shortened internodes, and smaller leaf size. Severe -Zn will result in twisted, deformed, stunted growth.

    CO2 does not need to be high under high light intensities. You can reduce it to 5mgl and plants will still grow well as long as nutrients are in adequate ranges, neither deficient nor toxic, and the pH is in sufficient range for nutrients to be available. Since you are using HCl to adjust pH to 6.5, CO2 does not need to be added as much to reduce the pH.

    Hope this helps.
     
    #54 Solcielo lawrencia, Jul 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  15. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Ive found this to be true as well.

    High levels of K will also have a dramatic affect on B uptake, moreso than Ca in my set ups
     
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  16. Aaron Chen

    Aaron Chen Subscriber
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    Thanks for sharing.

     
  17. burr740

    burr740 Micros Spiller
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    Its hard to prescribe an optimum ratio for everyone because nutrients behave differently at different PH levels.

    This chart gives a rough example of PH level's affect on nutrient availability

    Nutrients vs PH.gif

    Ca starts to become less available as the PH drops below 6.5. From this point, Ca becomes less and less available the lower the PH goes.

    We can think of this as being less potent, another way to put it is stronger or weaker.

    B has a different optimum PH, it is most available in the 5-7 range. As the PH climbs above 7 it becomes less available, or "weaker"

    So for example in a PH of 7.5 Ca will be at its strongest potency, B will be in a less potent state. In this circumstance B is more likely to be affected by high Ca levels and more will be required to compensate.

    But if the PH 6 B is in a more potent state, Ca is not so potent. In this circumstance it wont take as much B in spite of high Ca.

    That is why all these so-called "optimum ratios" cannot be applied across the board to everyone, because other factors of influence are not the same for everyone. This includes other things besides PH such as type of chelate, chelated vs non-chelated, inert vs high cec substrates, even things like tds and orp values can have an effect.

    On top of all this, the level of other competing nutrients has a profound effect, such as K and Ca both competing for uptake with B. See Mulder's chart in the previous post.

    So you really cant say 400:1 Ca:B is best for everyone. (or any other ratio for that matter) Because there's too many other factors involved.

    Its what happens inside the aquarium that matters, not what's in the dosing bottle.

    The best we can do is strike a good general range that works for the average hobbyist. Folks on on the far side of either end will have to adjust accordingly based on what their plants tell them.
     
  18. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    i tried to keep best optimum levels of nutrients. so, at this moment, i use a formula that is best fitted for the needs of more than one aquarist/aquarium, so i have the lucky to test my nutrient formula in more than 20 tanks until now. all of them with good result. i.ve still use the same method, with DTPA chelates and some of micro's not chelated. Zn is non-chelated, all of my plants are in good shape. now i tried to focus on Tonina's like Fluviatilis and Belem, Macrandra green is growing nice, good colour and shape... i put some photos, from a few day;s ago... i am so glad that all of you answer my questions. thank you so much... i'll keep try to observe and learn so much that i can from what plants are show me. in this post i have upload 2 photos from my little aquarium with shrimps :D low light , no co2 just with a complex named NCplus. is just some sort of fertilizer. :D

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  19. daniel deacu

    daniel deacu Member

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    so... @Solcielo lawrencia , i do not use HCL to lower the PH, i use it to lower or reduce de KH from the tap water. on the other part, i use an air pump, over night, before the day of WC to rise the PH if is necesary... to measure the KH i use JBL test kit. for PH i use a PHmeter Adwa ad12. what nutrient values ar best to keep in an good to high light aquarium, 0.75w/l ?? thank you!
     
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